MLB/Jays Thread - Page 597
Old 08-15-2013, 10:57 AM   #11921 (permalink)
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Na you're pretty well spot on Shadow. Only thing I'd add to that is an upgrade at 3rd if its possible, as I personally HATE Lawrie as a player. He's arrogant and hot headed as it can get and has no right to be, doesn't hit with any real consistency, and average at best defensively.
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:00 AM   #11922 (permalink)
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Na you're pretty well spot on Shadow. Only thing I'd add to that is an upgrade at 3rd if its possible, as I personally HATE Lawrie as a player. He's arrogant and hot headed as it can get and has no right to be, doesn't hit with any real consistency, and average at best defensively.
Lawrie - #stillbetterthanJP :mattyd:
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:06 AM   #11923 (permalink)
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True, but the entire team is better than JP :P
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:25 AM   #11924 (permalink)
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Na you're pretty well spot on Shadow. Only thing I'd add to that is an upgrade at 3rd if its possible, as I personally HATE Lawrie as a player. He's arrogant and hot headed as it can get and has no right to be, doesn't hit with any real consistency, and average at best defensively.
i would have agreed with you a number of weeks ago ...but watching him over the last number of games i see a different kid emerging
biggest news for me was the fact that i heard he was taking advice (finally) from experienced players like DeRosa
he's settled down a bit at the plate (more patience and taking what pitchers are giving him)...he's hitting VERY well right now (he's brought his average back up to .257 i believe ?)
seems to be healthy again...or at least getting healthier by the day
his defense at 3rd is exceptional (he and a healthy Reyes on the left side is an excellent combo imho)

regarding his "hot-headedness"...i don't mind when he shows emotion regarding his own play/mistakes...a number of games ago he failed on a bunt attempt and lost it in the dugout...i LIKE that ...shows he actually gives a fuck about winning
what i DON'T like is when he stares at/blames/argues with another player/coach...it's bush league at best...in a case like this he needs to STFU and play ball

he's a kid...but a kid with an immense amount of talent/potential...you don't throw that away because of some isolated instances of immaturity

hire a staff with a proven track record to harness and mold him instead
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Old 08-15-2013, 01:54 PM   #11925 (permalink)
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i would have agreed with you a number of weeks ago ...but watching him over the last number of games i see a different kid emerging
biggest news for me was the fact that i heard he was taking advice (finally) from experienced players like DeRosa
he's settled down a bit at the plate (more patience and taking what pitchers are giving him)...he's hitting VERY well right now (he's brought his average back up to .257 i believe ?)
seems to be healthy again...or at least getting healthier by the day
his defense at 3rd is exceptional (he and a healthy Reyes on the left side is an excellent combo imho)

regarding his "hot-headedness"...i don't mind when he shows emotion regarding his own play/mistakes...a number of games ago he failed on a bunt attempt and lost it in the dugout...i LIKE that ...shows he actually gives a fuck about winning
what i DON'T like is when he stares at/blames/argues with another player/coach...it's bush league at best...in a case like this he needs to STFU and play ball

he's a kid...but a kid with an immense amount of talent/potential...you don't throw that away because of some isolated instances of immaturity

hire a staff with a proven track record to harness and mold him instead
He rubs me the wrong way, his emotional BS is just wrong in so many instances, not just a few. A few flashes at the end of a garbage season doesn't convince me of anything.
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Old 08-15-2013, 02:00 PM   #11926 (permalink)
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i'd like to add a right fielder and 1B to that list...

Rajai Davis is a good utility outfielder with great speed but his bat is suspect..Jays need a starter in Right
i would send Lind packing and sign Morneau for 1B

1B - ? (sign Morneau ?)
2B - ? (ya it's a pipe dream...Robinson Cano ?)
SS - Reyes
3B - Lawrie
C - ? (bring John Buck back ?)

RF - ? (Shin-Soo Choo ?)
CF - Rasmus
LF - Bautista

DH - EE (can also play 1st and 3rd if need be)
Morneau is not close to what he was before, he's barely an upgrade over lind at this point and would be a terrible move unless he takes a major pay cut on his next contract, he made 14 mill this season.

John buck's been hitting under .230 for the past 3 years, for a cheap backup he would be fine but as a starter he's not an upgrade even with jpa being one of the worst players to ever play the game.

Choo would be awesome but not realistic he'll get payed as well, the jays will retain most of their players and it'll make their cap be around 140mill next season, they're not going to blow it up so I doubt we can make a splash by signing anyone.

“If we don’t win this year, we win next year,” Beeston said. “ If we don’t win next year, we win the year after.”
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Old 08-15-2013, 02:47 PM   #11927 (permalink)
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BLue Jays still own Colby Ramus rights for one more year, this was only his 5th year in the majors. So he is not a FA after this season, will go through arbitration with him for one more year if they can't get a long term deal done. He will be a FA after next year.
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Na you're pretty well spot on Shadow. Only thing I'd add to that is an upgrade at 3rd if its possible, as I personally HATE Lawrie as a player. He's arrogant and hot headed as it can get and has no right to be, doesn't hit with any real consistency, and average at best defensively.
wow average at best defensively? after machado and longoria there is no one better, he's 2nd in range to machado too.

As for hitting he's fixed his swing now,

.318 avg
.375 obp
.917 ops

in his last 30

hitting in Aug .429 .462 .633,

he's only played 65 games, and he been really good for almost half of them, with 2 different injuries, one at the beginning and one in the middle, there's a reason for him being inconsistent, let's just hope he can finish the season strong and continue next year

seriously though I know you hate him but him being average defensively is a ridiculous statement



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Old 08-15-2013, 05:43 PM   #11928 (permalink)
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i gotta admit, once you look past his hot-headedness and how he challenges his teamates and coaches, Lawrie is loaded with talent and potential. He's still young and has A LOT of growing up to do, but give him time and i can see him emerging as the one of the best 3rd basemen in the AL. he needs to get more consistant with his bat... his D is stellar, IMO.
he is very passionate, and this can sometimes be seen as a bad thing when he starts raging, but i like that he shows desire and shows emotion - you dont see enough of that nowadays... he just needs to know where to project it.
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:15 PM   #11929 (permalink)
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Morneau is not close to what he was before, he's barely an upgrade over lind at this point and would be a terrible move unless he takes a major pay cut on his next contract, he made 14 mill this season.

John buck's been hitting under .230 for the past 3 years, for a cheap backup he would be fine but as a starter he's not an upgrade even with jpa being one of the worst players to ever play the game.

Choo would be awesome but not realistic he'll get payed as well, the jays will retain most of their players and it'll make their cap be around 140mill next season, they're not going to blow it up so I doubt we can make a splash by signing anyone.

“If we don’t win this year, we win next year,” Beeston said. “ If we don’t win next year, we win the year after.”
I would take a healthy (32 yr old) Morneau over a healthy (30 yr old) Lind any day of the week..and no i wouldn't offer him anymore than Lind's $5,150,000

Buck was/is a solid game caller...don't care about his bat
What the Jays need is an experienced guy behind the plate...insert any good veteran here...i really don't care who it is
JP is NOT that guy

Cano is a pipe dream...but damn, wouldn't he look fucking awesome in a Jays uni ?...i think i'd probably pee my pants if we somehow managed to sign him

Why couldn't it be the Jays who pay Choo ?...not like it's my (or yours) money...i don't really care what the final payroll is
The Jays current salary is a little over $117,000,000...Rogers is a multiBILLION dollar company...140-190 is nothing more than "chump-change" to them



If you want to play with the big boys (Red Sox, Tigers and Yankees)...then go out and Pay like the big boys
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:31 PM   #11930 (permalink)
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you're right, my bad



wow average at best defensively? after machado and longoria there is no one better, he's 2nd in range to machado too.

As for hitting he's fixed his swing now,

.318 avg
.375 obp
.917 ops

in his last 30

hitting in Aug .429 .462 .633,

he's only played 65 games, and he been really good for almost half of them, with 2 different injuries, one at the beginning and one in the middle, there's a reason for him being inconsistent, let's just hope he can finish the season strong and continue next year

seriously though I know you hate him but him being average defensively is a ridiculous statement

Brett Lawrie Eludes Ghost Man At Third, Gets Out At First Vs. Oakland Athletics - YouTube

BOS@TOR: Lawrie makes a sensational play at third - YouTube

TOR@TB: Brett Lawrie makes a nice play in the fifth - YouTube
I haven't watched a ton of games, but a fair share, but it seemed he fucked up something in a good lot of them, maybe that was just me...
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:05 PM   #11931 (permalink)
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Lawrie just drove in the tying run...solid single up the middle
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Old 08-15-2013, 10:24 PM   #11932 (permalink)
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I would take a healthy (32 yr old) Morneau over a healthy (30 yr old) Lind any day of the week..and no i wouldn't offer him anymore than Lind's $5,150,000

Buck was/is a solid game caller...don't care about his bat
What the Jays need is an experienced guy behind the plate...insert any good veteran here...i really don't care who it is
JP is NOT that guy

Cano is a pipe dream...but damn, wouldn't he look fucking awesome in a Jays uni ?...i think i'd probably pee my pants if we somehow managed to sign him

Why couldn't it be the Jays who pay Choo ?...not like it's my (or yours) money...i don't really care what the final payroll is
The Jays current salary is a little over $117,000,000...Rogers is a multiBILLION dollar company...140-190 is nothing more than "chump-change" to them



If you want to play with the big boys (Red Sox, Tigers and Yankees)...then go out and Pay like the big boys
yeah buck is good at calling games and likes toronto, I just think we need better production from that position, he's basically jpa with less power and better defense.

Cano would be amazing if there was any way to land him I wouldn't care about this terrible season.

as for choo, I'm just saying what jays management said, they'll be around 140 mill unless they dump some big contracts, I don't see it happening since it's not really an area we need to upgrade

Davidi: Upgrades to Jays' roster won't come easy - Sportsnet.ca
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Old 08-15-2013, 10:27 PM   #11933 (permalink)
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good to see gose called back up
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Old 08-15-2013, 10:45 PM   #11934 (permalink)
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Choo is about to get paid big time with Boras as his agent. Love him with the Reds this year, but I'm enjoying him while I can. I know he will be gone after the year is over most likely.

You're probably looking at a 4yr 50-60mil range area.
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Old 08-16-2013, 02:01 PM   #11935 (permalink)
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Choo is about to get paid big time with Boras as his agent. Love him with the Reds this year, but I'm enjoying him while I can. I know he will be gone after the year is over most likely.

You're probably looking at a 4yr 50-60mil range area.
I dont think hes worth near that...
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Old 08-16-2013, 04:26 PM   #11936 (permalink)
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I dont think hes worth near that...
I think he is a underrated player who a lot of people don't talk about but I agree. I would love him at 4yr 46mil. I think that would be good value for him. He can hit for average, gets on base(.411 OBP, 2nd in NL(behind Votto), hit for power(15HR), good defense(great arm), and good baserunner.

I mean there is a lot to like about him. But he is about to be 31 I believe and really struggles vs LHP.

He is hitting .321AVG/.452OBP/1.012OPS vs RHP. .175AVG/.321OBP/.525OPS vs LHP.


Still, Choo is a VERY GOOD player who you love to watch on your team. HE gives you great AB each time and shows up and does his job. I just don't think the Reds will have the CAP to bring him back. :/



I mean come to think about it, look at what the market is getting paid. Michael Bourn just got a 4yr 48mil deal. I would take Choo over him big time. 4yr 60mil deal might be good deal for Choo, because with the way the market was set for MLB OF, he might a lot more than that and for longer years.
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Old 08-16-2013, 04:32 PM   #11937 (permalink)
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Reading around, some people believe Choo will get 5yr/80mil type deal this offseason, close to what BJ Upton & Andre Either got recently.

Choo WAR is almost equal to their WAR.


Like I said before, he is a very good player. Hits for average, gets on base at a high rate, has good power, solid speed/good baserunner, great arm. That is a lot to like. He is amazing vs RHP, struggles vs LHP though. I'm hoping Reds find a way to keep him because without this year, Reds wouldn't be where they are at right now.
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Old 08-16-2013, 05:34 PM   #11938 (permalink)
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Who the frack is choo?
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Old 08-16-2013, 06:40 PM   #11939 (permalink)
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was watching the det/kc game this afternoon, bonifacio was playing 3rd

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Old 08-16-2013, 06:41 PM   #11940 (permalink)
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I think he is a underrated player who a lot of people don't talk about but I agree. I would love him at 4yr 46mil. I think that would be good value for him. He can hit for average, gets on base(.411 OBP, 2nd in NL(behind Votto), hit for power(15HR), good defense(great arm), and good baserunner.

I mean there is a lot to like about him. But he is about to be 31 I believe and really struggles vs LHP.

He is hitting .321AVG/.452OBP/1.012OPS vs RHP. .175AVG/.321OBP/.525OPS vs LHP.


Still, Choo is a VERY GOOD player who you love to watch on your team. HE gives you great AB each time and shows up and does his job. I just don't think the Reds will have the CAP to bring him back. :/



I mean come to think about it, look at what the market is getting paid. Michael Bourn just got a 4yr 48mil deal. I would take Choo over him big time. 4yr 60mil deal might be good deal for Choo, because with the way the market was set for MLB OF, he might a lot more than that and for longer years.
Thanks RBF...good inside info
Imho, Choo looks like a really good overall outfielder/player

And my apologies to everyone...for some reason i said i wanted a new RF (when i should have said LF)...Joey Bats stays where he is
I guess if we managed to sign Choo we could always move him over to Left (playing CF with the Reds ? )

Bottom line is we need a starter in Left to solidify our outfield
Keep Davis as a utility outfielder (can play all 3 spots)...or use his speed off the bench
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