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The MVP of West Hollywood 06-19-2008 11:39 PM

US General Election thread
Obama's destroying the Republicans everywhere. Despite the 3 month head start, McCain still can't get above 45% nationwide, and the trend with Hillary showed that the more Obama campaigned, the more support he gained.

He's even tied with McCain in Georgia. Yeah, you heard that right.


This is a fabulous response to one of McCain's crummy techniques

http://thepage.time.com/obama-remarks-o ... ghanistan/


Senator McCain’s campaign has said I want to pursue a law enforcement approach to terrorism. This is demonstrably false, since I have laid out a comprehensive counter-terrorism strategy that includes military force, intelligence operations, financial sanctions and diplomatic action. But the fact that I want to abide by the United States Constitution, they say, shows that I have a “pre-9/11 mindset.”

Well I refuse to be lectured on national security by people who are responsible for the most disastrous set of foreign policy decisions in the recent history of the United States. The other side likes to use 9/11 as a political bludgeon. Well, let’s talk about 9/11.

The people who were responsible for murdering 3,000 Americans on 9/11 have not been brought to justice. They are Osama bin Laden, al Qaeda and their sponsors – the Taliban. They were in Afghanistan. And yet George Bush and John McCain decided in 2002 that we should take our eye off of Afghanistan so that we could invade and occupy a country that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. The case for war in Iraq was so thin that George Bush and John McCain had to hype the threat of Saddam Hussein, and make false promises that we’d be greeted as liberators. They misled the American people, and took us into a misguided war.

Here are the results of their policy. Osama bin Laden and his top leadership – the people who murdered 3000 Americans – have a safe-haven in northwest Pakistan, where they operate with such freedom of action that they can still put out hate-filled audiotapes to the outside world. That’s the result of the Bush-McCain approach to the war on terrorism.

We had al Qaeda and the Taliban on the run back in 2002. But then we diverted military, intelligence, financial, and diplomatic resources to Iraq. And yet Senator McCain has said as recently as this April that, “Afghanistan is not in trouble because of our diversion to Iraq.” I think that just shows a dangerous misjudgment of the facts, and a stubborn determination to ignore the need to finish the fight in Afghanistan.

Benzo 06-19-2008 11:54 PM

I got 50 bucks says McCain wins the election...and its not that close...

Dr. J. Naismith 06-20-2008 09:10 AM


Originally Posted by Benzo (Post 36652)
I got 50 bucks says McCain wins the election...and its not that close...

Sad, but unfortunately true. I'm not implying that I'm following the race at that closely, but it would seem as though the States are going to have another 4 years of the Republicans in power. :(

Acie 06-20-2008 09:44 AM

I hate to say it , but I think the Democrats were already screwed either way.

I just can't see the United States being ready to elect a woman or a person of colour as thier leader. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

I think the Demecrats and the Republicans both need to go away anyway.

Belsius 06-20-2008 10:13 AM

I was going to say that seeing that McCain speeches are not lets say.... "inspiring"... for anybody, not even Republicans, and Obama speaks like he was JFK, I would say that GOP doesnt have a chance. Then again, a monkey has better speaking abilities than Bush and he won twice.

I would say that Obama is going to win for sure, but somewhat they will probably catch bin laden a week before election day sooo....

LX 06-20-2008 08:41 PM

I hope Obama truly does bring change in terms of the approach to securing ideological bases that has been so tiresome for so long. I saw him speak at the convention 4 years ago and thought he should have been running then. He's become a little more conventional as time passes, but I can't see him being as cynical as those that have been in power for the last 20 years or more. He has to win or there's no chance of the morons who committed war crimes being held accountable, although I suppose with McCain there would still be an outside chance of that happening.

jeffb 06-20-2008 10:52 PM

The Americans were stupid enough to re-elect Bush so i wouldn't put it past them to elect McDumbDumb.At this point though,as long as the young voters come out in big numbers Obama should win.Let's face it the voters are to blame for Bush's ineptitude and if they vote in McCain they have nobody to blame but themselves when he makes things worse.

Benzo 06-20-2008 10:54 PM


The simplistic views the rest of the world have towards the American Government makes me sad.

Aar_Canada 06-21-2008 02:03 AM

The Republicans have no chance. That's why McCain's running.

Claudius 06-21-2008 09:00 AM


Originally Posted by Benzo (Post 36838)

The simplistic views the rest of the world have towards the American Government makes me sad.

Benzo enlighten us please. :dancing:

I don't see a difference between the Republicans or Democrats. They're very much alike in alot of ways.

McCain will win, in a landslide.

And personally, I don't like Obama nor McCain. I think one is just saying things to grab votes and I think the other one is a continuous flip flopper.

jeffb 06-21-2008 01:23 PM


Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 36859)
Benzo enlighten us please. :dancing:

I don't see a difference between the Republicans or Democrats. They're very much alike in alot of ways.

McCain will win, in a landslide.

And personally, I don't like Obama nor McCain. I think one is just saying things to grab votes and I think the other one is a continuous flip flopper.

Landslide?Obama keeps widening his lead almost on a daily basis in the polls.And IMO when these two start debating,Obama will make McCain look like a bumbling moron with as much grasp of the English language as a 12 year old.But like i said Americans re-elected Bush to a second term when his approval rating was at 40%!So it wouldn't surprise me if McCain won but if he does the American public better look in the mirror in a few years when they're in a worse position then they're in now.And i also think his age and health will be an issue before all is said and done.:doh::old:

ClingRap 06-21-2008 03:50 PM

Kucinich should be the guy. He's eccentric, unpredictable, believes in UFOs, and doesn't flip flop.
Obama is as conservative as you can get for a Democrat. Like LX pointed out, he's grown more and more moderate, in hopes of securing the middle American vote.
I don't think it matters who wins at this point. Meet the new boss same as the old boss.

LX 06-21-2008 05:01 PM

I think there is a real chance that Obama will govern with an eye towards turning the page as he says. If he really does keep lobbyists at bay, and is inclusive and does something about the massive debt and the reliance on the military-industrial complex, then he will be a whole lot different than the old boss. Make no mistake about that.

I have no problem with him being more of a moderate after the crazy Trotskyist, power-hungry bullshit that has gone on over the last eight years. Again - I think that would be an enormous change. And the rest of the world would look very differently at the american gov't. There's a reason those views are simplistic. When you're told "you're either fer us or agin us", your views are going to reflect that. And that changes immediately with a guy named Obama saying very different things. That still leaves a lot to be done in order to capitalize on that shift, but just to have that sense of promise again would be great.

I think it all depends on just how ambitious he is, and how ambitious he can be. And much depends on just how bogged down they will or will not be in Iraq. But that country is in a big big hole and simply cannot afford to do business as usual without approaching some kind of collapse, which would suck for us, and for the world. There's a good chance that any presidency would face crisis pretty quickly, and I think Obama would be able to keep himself and enough of the public from being in denial any further, and start moving in the right direction again, which really means just shifting a huge amount of capital away from corrupt speculators, war-profiteers, and global investors exploiting instabilities, and towards solving what have to be seen very soon as obvious problems. That's his challenge right now - needing to campaign as though there is no impending crisis that too many people really don't want to face, in order to not feed the scaremongering machine that could undo him; but to still fight for the change that everyone knows is necessary in the face of the crisis that already exists in many ways. He could probably win by simply brushing off the attacks and painting the same picture of the country that all the Democrats could agree on, but he needs a bigger consensus than that if he wants to be effective without the use of the cut-throat and dogmatic power politics of today.

Now if McCain were to win, I think he needs to bring in a lot of change as well, and would not be averse to it, but I think he would move much too slowly and look first at the same interests that thrive today. Still either of these candidates is so different from what we've seen in this decade, where the justice department indicted people on the basis of politics alone as though it was the USSR and not the USA, where habeas corpus along with every other part of the constitution was horribly eroded in order to support what amounts to tyranny, and where governing has been done by people whose qualifications lie merely in past lobbying efforts, cronyism, and where they stand on abortion. The disaster has happened. I merely want it to be made clear how big that disaster has been, to hold those responsible to full account, and to then make the most of the transparency that will be allowed to take place once that happens.

lang 10-25-2008 02:36 PM

McCain aide: Palin 'going rogue'

With 10 days to go until election day, long brewing tension between Sarah Palin and key aides to John McCain has become so intense, it is spilling out into the public.

Several McCain advisers have suggested to CNN they have become increasingly frustrated with what one aide described as Palin “going rogue” recently, while a Palin associate says she is simply trying to “bust free” of what she believes was a mishandled roll-out that damaged her.


A second McCain source tells CNN she appears to now be looking out for herself more than the McCain campaign.

“She is a diva. She takes no advice from anyone,” said this McCain adviser, “she does not have any relationships of trust with any of us, her family or anyone else. Also she is playing for her own future and sees herself as the next leader of the party. Remember: divas trust only unto themselves as they see themselves as the beginning and end of all wisdom.”


Talk about the wheels falling off.

Dr. J. Naismith 10-25-2008 02:38 PM

For the rest of the world and for the States themselves this is probably a good thing. ;)

Ugo Ferst 10-25-2008 02:48 PM

wow missed this thread... you guys really think McCain was going to win at any point? bhahahahahahaha, most republicans dont even like him.

Belsius 10-25-2008 02:51 PM

I never though there could be a dumber politcian than bush in power or candidate to power in the US. I was wrong, she is the most stupid thing I have ever seen. Might as well put Paris Hilton as vicepresident.

Ugo Ferst 10-25-2008 02:58 PM

I actually bet $100 with a few people when the democratic candidate was decided ;) So looking forward to an extra $300 in my pocket.

Im sure the McCain team has the concession speech already written, it's already over, he couldnt stop with the negative campaigning even tho it wasnt working, he is pretty liberal for a republican so he doesnt really have the full support of the very right, and as Bush proved running against him, he is old and out of touch with the needs of middle class americans.

Remember Roberto Alomar's juice commercial (no reason for mentioning this just had a flash back), loved it, "da un wit McCain punch!!"

Claudius 10-25-2008 03:53 PM

Wait, I thought I just read somewhere that US Americans (Rome reference) were polled and so far the popular vote was split at like 44% to 44%. So yeah, this election is far from being considered over.

I'm actually beginning to believe that Palin is being considered a positive influence. And Ugo, don't pay much attention to political in fighting. Obama is NOT the most popular candidate amongst democrats, much like McCain isn't the most poular with the republicans.

jeffb 10-25-2008 04:04 PM

Obama is ahead in 5 "Republican" states on an average of 7%.Some of those states haven't voted Democrat in 40 years.Obama will win this election 56%-44%.Unless the voter turnout has been overstated!

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