US Election day: Who would you vote for? - Page 8

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View Poll Results: Given the chance to vote today in the US election, who do you vote for?
Barack Obama 13 68.42%
Mitt Romney 1 5.26%
Intentionally spoiled vote. 5 26.32%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-07-2012, 09:05 PM   #141 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

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Most, if not all, Americans rely on the government for something. Obama voters are more likely to be the ones that want "free" healthcare, stronger unions (more benefits), extended unemployment pay and non citizens benefiting from the same "stuff" citizens get.
Free Healthcare doesn't exist anywhere. But yeah, democrats wanting socialized medicine isn't anything new. I agree that those are mostly Democratic issues.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:06 PM   #142 (permalink)
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its kind of true though. plenty of people that voted for Obama want more entitlements. and the white majority is decreasing the country.
I agree that his analysis was somewhat accurate, but the language of entitlement and wanting stuff is terrible, mean-spirited, and placed alongside lamentations over the end of the white establishment, spoken from a place of privilege that is not warranted. It's really pretty undemocratic. So he understood the change in the demographics, but really missed the point - that the change means a shift in the political balance according to democratic principles.

Yeah - there are a set of people that want stuff. I suppose, just like the white men that not only wanted stuff, but expected it, not through exercising their rights as citizens, but by their birthright. This has gone hand in hand with the idea of American exceptionalism, and in each case there as been a tremendous overreach. It's really not that big of a problem to see that balanced out slightly.

It's what I was saying about change being cemented. Think about what blacks and women, and gays, and pretty much anyone not a white male have had to settle for time and time again. Any victories were extremely hard fought, and overall they could count on being on the losing side of the electorate. Hell, a lot of white men ended up losing out while being on the winning side, while being suckered into following along with fears of the "other". Because only a very few most privileged among them wanted stuff. A lot of stuff. An unimaginable amount of stuff. In this very election they spent billions in order to keep the stuff flowing to them. The people Bill speaks of are looking for greater fairness and opportunity. And mostly they are moderates just looking for a fair and balanced way to ease the debt burdens after decades of having it hoisted on their backs. So yeah, he can fuck off with his whining and step down from the balcony along with Marie Antoinette.

Last edited by LX; 11-07-2012 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:21 PM   #143 (permalink)
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I agree that his analysis was somewhat accurate, but the language of entitlement and wanting stuff is terrible, mean-spirited, and placed alongside lamentations over the end of the white establishment, spoken from a place of privilege that is not warranted. It's really pretty undemocratic. So he understood the change in the demographics, but really missed the point - that the change means a shift in the political balance according to democratic principles.

Yeah - there are a set of people that want stuff. I suppose, just like the white men that not only wanted stuff, but expected it, not through exercising their rights as citizens, but by their birthright. This has gone hand in hand with the idea of American exceptionalism, and in each case there as been a tremendous overreach. It's really not that big of a problem to see that balanced out slightly.

It's what I was saying about change being cemented. Think about what blacks and women, and gays, and pretty much anyone not a white male have had to settle for time and time again. Any victories were extremely hard fought, and overall they could count on being on the losing side of the electorate. Hell, a lot of white men ended up losing out while being on the winning side, while being suckered into following along with fears of the "other". Because only a very few most privileged among them wanted stuff. A lot of stuff. An unimaginable amount of stuff. In this very election they spent billions in order to keep the stuff flowing to them. The people Bill speaks of are looking for greater fairness and opportunity. And mostly they are moderates just looking for a fair and balanced way to ease the debt burdens after decades of having it hoisted on their backs. So yeah, he can fuck off with his whining and step down from the balcony along with Marie Antoinette.
well said
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:29 AM   #144 (permalink)
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:38 AM   #145 (permalink)
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Interesting poll. I read a poll that said 72% of Canadians said they would have voted for obama. I don't know the scope or breadth of that poll, but I assume Obama vs. Romney would be at least 70 - 30 here.

One of my friends posted on facebook that he wishes Canadians would be as excited or involved in our politics as we are in theirs. The problem is that we have the right and left wings (made up of two parties) of the democratic party here, not two different parties. There is no substantive debate here. This isn't a bad thing though, we're a pretty united country... or maybe just a collection of individual immigrants who couldn't care less.

When politics turns into entertainment, the greatest actor will win.
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:52 PM   #146 (permalink)
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The problem is that we have the right and left wings (made up of two parties) of the democratic party here, not two different parties.
except that there is no left wing, politically, in america. there is a slightly right of centre party (with a centrist wing and a right wing) and a very right of centre party (with a right wing and a lunatic fringe).
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:54 PM   #147 (permalink)
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So who voted Romney? Lol
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:14 PM   #148 (permalink)
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except that there is no left wing, politically, in america. there is a slightly right of centre party (with a centrist wing and a right wing) and a very right of centre party (with a right wing and a lunatic fringe).
No, there is a left of center wing. It is a real coalition. The question is whether it can move forward as one. The left certainly has not been given much sway thus far. But the extremism of the Republicans opens up that possibility now. I really think this marks the end of the regime that Reagan built. The amazing part is that a loony like Sununu, that Reagan had to fire to keep his coalition together, was let loose in this campaign, and made it easier to strengthen Obama's coalition.

Now if the economy gets on an upswing, and enough constructive change takes place, the Republicans are in a really tough place. But the Democrats can't just play the Republican game of trying to win by default, by splitting the electorate and constantly pushing buttons and framing issues to drive enough people to their side. They really do have to move forward. And the Republicans will likely keep preventing them from doing so all that much. It will be interesting to see if they lose the House in two years or not, otherwise the only politics that will really be worth much will be local.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:22 PM   #149 (permalink)
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it's only the extremism of the far right that makes the dems look left. any country in which 'liberal' is a bad word and 'socialism' is an insult has no credible left wing. sorry, but the democrats would be a centre-right party almost anywhere else, even with the current 'coalition'.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:00 PM   #150 (permalink)
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it's only the extremism of the far right that makes the dems look left. any country in which 'liberal' is a bad word and 'socialism' is an insult has no credible left wing. sorry, but the democrats would be a centre-right party almost anywhere else, even with the current 'coalition'.
agreed. But there is a left wing. And they may very well move from Center-right to become much more centrist. Liberal is not really such a bad word anymore. And the whole socialism insult was overplayed. I might be calling on this change too soon, but it really appears to be coming along with the shift in the demographics. There is a backlash to the backlash in the making. The Republicans look like they will be too busy waging war internally to make much of a dent on that shift.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:22 PM   #151 (permalink)
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:28 PM   #152 (permalink)
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I just happened to read this column by Paul Krugman. It would appear that socialism has been rendered relatively meaningless.

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Socialism!
I have to say, the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments on the right comes as a surprise. We knew that they would be upset; but the extent to which they were really, truly unprepared for the obvious possibility that Obama would be reelected is remarkable. I suspect that it comes down to two things: self-definition in terms of always being the people with the power, and the right-wing information bubble, which left them completely unaware of information they didn’t want to hear.

One thing that caught my eye, in particular, has been the wailing that Americans have turned socialist. (Conservatives haven’t failed America — America has failed conservatives!) Thus John Hinderaker of Bush is a genius fame declares,

"To me, the most telling incident of the campaign season was a poll that found that among young Americans, socialism enjoys a higher favorability rating than free enterprise. How can this possibly be, given the catastrophic failure of socialism, and the corresponding success of free enterprise, throughout history? The answer is that conservatives have entirely lost control over the culture."

Oddly, he doesn’t even seem to consider the more obvious possibility: after decades in which right-wingers have attacked long-established institutions — Social Security, progressive taxation, unemployment insurance — as “socialism”, a lot of young people now believe them, and think that this “socialism” thing really isn’t so bad. A case in point: Sheldon Adelson’s Israeli newspaper just ran the headline “America chooses socialism”, referring to the reelection of a president who enacted a health care reform originally proposed by the Heritage Foundation.

Last edited by LX; 11-08-2012 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:18 PM   #153 (permalink)
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Barack Obama may have comfortably won re-election in the electoral college, and opened up a decisive lead (two million and counting) in the popular vote. But here is the absolute, undoubted winner of this election: Nate Silver and his running mate, big data.

The Fivethirtyeight.com analyst, despite being pilloried by the pundits, outdid even his 2008 prediction. In that year, his mathematical model correctly called 49 out of 50 states, missing only Indiana (which went to Obama by 0.1%.)

This year, according to all projections, Silver’s model has correctly predicted 50 out of 50 states. A last-minute flip for Florida, which finally went blue in Silver’s prediction on Monday night, helped him to a perfect game.

A caveat: Florida has not yet been called officially, but Obama is in the lead with 98% of precincts reporting. If anything, Silver’s placing of Florida on a knife edge makes him look even more prescient. No wonder one of the night’s more popular tweets suggested that he was actually from the future, working from old newspapers.


SEE ALSO: Did Nate Silver Let Twitter Get Under His Skin?


What does this victory mean? That mathematical models can no longer be derided by “gut-feeling” pundits. That Silver’s contention — TV pundits are generally no more accurate than a coin toss — must now be given wider credence.

The great thing about a model like Silver’s (and that of similarly winning math nerds, such as Sam Wang of the Princeton Election Consortium) is that it takes all that myopic human bias out of the equation. The ever-present temptation to cherry-pick polls is subverted.

You set your parameters at the start, deciding how much weight and accuracy you’re going to give to each poll based purely on their historical accuracy. You feed in whatever other conditions you think will matter to the result. Then, you sit back and let the algorithm do the work.

Silver may be a registered Democrat, but he learned back when he was doing baseball analysis that he’d never get anywhere if his models weren’t absolutely neutral, straight down the line between feuding teams.

By 2016, if the networks are paying attention, don’t be surprised to see that the talking heads are all Nate Silver clones. Every media organization will now want its own state poll-based algorithm, especially given how much traffic Silver has driven to the New York Times‘ website. We’ll see more about that kind of model, and less stories about individual polls, which are almost always misleading unless you aggregate them.

Statistics, big data, neutral mathematical models — this, it turns out, is what people want. Who knew?

Well, we geeks knew, but we’re starting to get used to having the rest of the world follow our lead. We had the smartphones first, we read the fantasy books before they became blockbuster movies and TV shows, and now we can boast that we stood shoulder-to-shoulder with Nate Silver’s data before it was popular.



http://mashable.com/2012/11/07/nate-silver-wins/

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Old 11-08-2012, 08:28 PM   #154 (permalink)
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I just happened to read this column by Paul Krugman. It would appear that socialism has been rendered relatively meaningless.
brilliant
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:17 PM   #155 (permalink)
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The right is going to call Obama weak for this. lol

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Old 11-09-2012, 02:01 AM   #156 (permalink)
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The right is going to call Obama weak for this. lol

President Obama: "I'm Really Proud of All of You." - YouTube
Awesome, I had heard about this video, but had not yet seen it. Thanks for posting! The president had been stretched pretty thin over the last few weeks, and I'm sure how emotional he had been stemmed a bit from the stresses of the last few weeks (ever since the first debate), but it's nice to see that degree of "humanness" from somebody who's in a position where that part isn't shown so often.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:54 PM   #157 (permalink)
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:13 PM   #158 (permalink)
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Last edited by jeffb; 11-09-2012 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:48 PM   #159 (permalink)
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:42 AM   #160 (permalink)
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I wonder what a full endorsement from Ron Paul would have done for Romney, particularly among young voters. They should have at least given him a speech at the convention! That was a costly mistake imo. Not to mention the Ron Paul drones had a decent sized ground game, zeal, and social network movement.
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