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Snooch

Good read but it has alot of errors.

Such as you cant tell about defense from statistics?

What about defensive rating, block percentage, steal percentage, opposing per, etc?

Claudius

Snooch, I have a friend who is an astro-physicist (sp) and I spoke to her about how objective is statistical information.

Her response: stats in and of themself can tell you nothing. Stats contrary to belief are very much objective in every sense. The only true objective method (and even that was a stretch for her) was utilization of the scientific method to acheive a desired outcome and that uses more that statistical information.

As for telling stats from defense. Yes, it can be helpful to look at those things but they don't determine if you're a good defensive player or not.

Again, playing the right position, cutting lanes off, defending the pick and roll, making opposition shots tougher etc. are all part of defense and are immeasurable on the stat sheet.

Dwight Howard led the league in blocks. Does that make him the best defensive big man? Hardly.

XiaominWu

Yeah, I think a good comparison is in the NFL, where a cornerback with no stats at all could be the best player at that position. If you are good enough, they will never throw at your man.

Acie

I agree with 75% of the opinions being expressed in this thread.

I usually agree with the contributors of that 75% - 85.7% of the time.

zachus

Stats are an aid to an argument, not a crutch.

INSIDER

just ask Champ Bailey.

Snooch

Dwight was defensive player of the year.

Astro Physicists study alot of statics and statistic analysis?

I have many statatitian frends who would argue to the death about her points.

LX

Stats regarding any particular actual game or even performances in seasons past can be interesting, as long as they are not meant to be taken in and of themselves. Stats that attempt to illuminate future performances are just insane. You're either a sports fan or a math fan in my books. Or you can be both I guess, but why insist on thinking there is an irrevocable link between the two passions that is justified, when neither passion on its own is justifiable as a means towards any kind of public good.

You've got slackers and you've got nerds. Put them together and that party sucks kitty litter. I've always been terrified of the illusionary power, and maybe even the real power, that computers put in the hands of crazy people, and yes I include myself. As a young man that's all I could think about: there are millions of crazy people out there - we all know that - and now they are not just out there - they are learning about computers. I never thought the end result would be fantasy leagues.

Bmats7

The problem is.. anyone can anything they want without statistics.

Someone was telling me the other day that Kobe was a better offensive player than Jordan. And despite everything I would say.. he kept saying, "ya but kobe's offence is so smooth... and he doesnt have to work as hard as jordan did".

There's no way for him to prove that.. or me to disprove that. Like someone on this forum (can't remember who) said Bosh is not a great rebounder... but every stat all time goes against that.

Equally bad though, is people that use stats out of context, or fudge them to prove a point lol (like taking a guy who plays 18 mins a game and multiply their stats to PER 48 mins lol).

Acie

"And the only important stat, if you want to call it that, is the final score. And so I was only interested in winning." - Bill Russell

jeffb

Every athelete on the planet says that... "All i want to do is win" lol

XiaominWu

some mean it a little more than others.

Acie

Who's won more than Bill Russell?

Snooch

Give me stats as a correlation between past, present and future performance and it almost never will lie.

If the right stats are chosen and worked with amungst themselves it will paint an incredibly accurate picture of what future performances hold.

Bosh stats 2009-with addition of Marion, Delfino and Evans taken into account.

20.7ppg, 8.3rpg, 2apg, 0.6spg, 1.1bpg, 48.9%fg
remember those numbers.

bjjs

Those stats will never lie...So if you get a sample of 10 years from a player, whos getting between 14-16 points, and 7-8 assists, you're right, he'll most likely get around those numbers in season 11.

But the types of conclusions that you want to tag those numbers on, are still just opinions. No matter how big your sample size is. Ie) correlating those numbers to wins and productivity will always be a stretch, and always be flawed.

If you can tell the future by your statistics, make some money off it. The fact is, the recorded data from a basketball game is pretty small. So much goes on during a basketball game resulting from a player's actions that isn't recorded.

Your data is always flawed, and whatever prediction you get, is still always going to be flawed. Being able to predict flawed information is kind of pointless.

LX

Pointless, unless fantasy leagues mean more to you then the real thing.

Snooch

So then I guess because Eddie House plays on a winnin gteam he must be real solid player.

You guys argue that as a main piece Bosh averaging 20 and 10 is soooooooo much better than someone like Zbo doing the exact same thing(although I do admit that Bosh character is alot higher)

Stats play an important part in the analysis of players, teams etc. Many coaches/management(ie: Houston is big into it) us stats as a part of their decision making.

The fact that so many here are so quick to dismiss stats as a very important tool in determining player performance it can only lead me to beleive either some people are igorant or they just dont know any better.

bjjs

They`re a tool...

I would say that the reason so many use stats is simply because they`re available. They look at a situation, develop some ideas, and then well, might as well look at the stats since they`re literally seconds away in this day and age.

A very important tool though... I don`t think so. Any GM, coach, owner, can sit back and look at a player play the actual games and make their decision on that and that alone. I`m sure every GM in the league has gone with their gut despite what numbers tell them.

Will statistics draw their attention to a player, sure. Will it impact contract negotiations, of course. But when it comes to actually making the decision to go after a guy or not, it comes down to watching game tape and watching somebody play.

LX

35 percent of people are ignorant
35 percent of people don't know any better
and 35 percent of people are just stoopid.