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-   -   In a society that prides itself on equality... (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f23/society-prides-itself-equality-22538.html)

Someguy again 03-21-2012 07:14 PM

In a society that prides itself on equality...
 
Mississauga Article: Canada doesn't want autistic boy

Quote:

A man employed by a Mississauga company will be deported from Canada with his family because of the potential health care and social services costs associated with their 12-year-old autistic son.
For Sungsoo Kim, who has lived in Hamilton with his family for nine years, being rejected for permanent residency is devastating. He came to Canada on a student permit and has remained here on work permits.
and further research I've been doing....

Termination rates after prenatal diagnosis of Down syndrome, spina bifida, anencephaly, and Turner and Klinefelter syndromes: a systematic literature review - Mansfield - 1999 - Prenatal Diagnosis - Wiley Online Library

Quote:

The aims of this systematic literature review are to estimate termination rates after prenatal diagnosis of one of five conditions: Down syndrome, spina bifida, anencephaly, and Turner and Klinefelter syndromes....Termination rates varied across conditions. They were highest following a prenatal diagnosis of Down syndrome (92 per cent; CI: 91 per cent to 93 per cent)...
Now I know this is a hard hitting topic, but with all the recent positive popular media influences on disability (Glee's Lauren Potter, Kyrie Irving becoming a spokes person for Best Buddies, etc.) Do you feel that these media influences can help change this negative outlook on people with disabilities? or do we have to do much more?

'trane 03-21-2012 08:10 PM

positive news helps, but the reality is that we are a long way off from truly inclusive communities and its going to take a hell of a lot more than a couple of celebs to change that. there is a lot of work being done on the ground by families, self-advocates and social service front line people, but it's really about people changing the way we think about the communities we live, work and play in.

Someguy again 03-21-2012 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'trane (Post 628943)
positive news helps, but the reality is that we are a long way off from truly inclusive communities and its going to take a hell of a lot more than a couple of celebs to change that. there is a lot of work being done on the ground by families, self-advocates and social service front line people, but it's really about people changing the way we think about the communities we live, work and play in.

what scares me is the rate of termination today that threatens the social services that support these people, who might be a rarity. imagine if the population rate for people with down syndrome in the near future was very low and we started to look at them more negatively because they were so scarce and we start taking steps back to the era of institutions and return to hiding them away instead of including them into the community.

pzabby 07-24-2012 03:58 AM

This is an interesting topic and begs the question of how close we really are to other animals in the world. Other animals shun out of their community those with disabilities, or whom are different in various way. We were/are doing basically the same thing so looking at it strictly from a behavioral stance, how much more "evolved" are we than our primate counterparts? is it by a very, very wide margin as some would believe, which is fair given the intellectual difference alone, however when it comes to issues like this we see that we may have evolved thoroughly in certain aspects, but not so much in others. This isn't necessarily a bad thing and before all the ethic judgers come calling for my head I say this in terms of the survival of the fittest idea, and how, in the root of everything we do, every single action, thought, process, is engrained the idea that we must survive and that thought trumps everything else we come to know. our code of ethics one could argue only reaches out to points which would not affect this ability, this need. however in areas where we might be better of ignoring our ethics, we do, no matter how much the mass media trys to tell us otherwise.


then again, this is all very far reaching and very raw in thought, but, it's interesting to note nonetheless.

bjjs 07-24-2012 10:41 PM

I don't think it has much to do with equality as it does expectations, and perhaps some misguided views on raising children with disability.

As far as expectations, during my wife's second pregnancy and labour, there is always a lingering thought in the back of my mind hoping that the baby is perfectly healthy. My three year old wouldn't of cared a bit if my newborn had down syndrome or any other condition because he didn't have expectations. But for the most part, parents have expectations that they will have a healthy baby.

As far as views on raising children with disabilities - I think the general view is that it costs more money, requires more time, and is generally just harder. True or not, I think that's the view most people have.


My wife never got the tests done to diagnose these conditions, from my understanding they are rather rigorous and invasive. The people who are going for these tests, go knowing that if they turn out positive they're most likely going to terminate the pregnancy. So even though the termination rate is 91%, I'm guessing that only like 1-5% of pregnant women take the tests.

If it was possible to diagnose these conditions to a high degree in the first trimester(I don't think it is), I would ask my wife to consider termination. If testing is/was possible, and cheap, and easily administered in the first trimester I think you would definitely see a rapid decline in the number of births with disability.

LX 07-25-2012 07:11 AM

I would question whether the terminations are entirely about self-interest. Having had a sister with downs, I would worry more about the problems a potential child would face more than my own difficulties. My sister has given me far more benefits than troubles as a sibling, and I would imagine that would remain true as a parent of a child with a disability, but there's no denying the difficulties they would have to face themselves, and that would leave me questioning whether to move forward or not.

At the same time, I worry about our need to know everything and have the illusion of being in control. The control only goes so far, and the decisions can end up being impossible.


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