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-   -   Should there be tolls in toronto? (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f23/should-there-tolls-toronto-12848.html)

Someguy again 01-14-2010 07:39 PM

Should there be tolls in toronto?
 
Alright just to make life easier I'll do it in point form.

Pros:

- People enter Toronto all the time a pollute our air then leave, so we should charge them through tolls.

- Money can go into infrastructure

- With the extra money we can see improvements in our streets (potholes anyone?)

- (My opinion) I rather pay 60 dollars a year for tolls than pay hundreds in repairs on my car because of the damage from potholes

Cons:

- highway traffic will be heavier

- I don't wanna pay more money

thoughts?

especially people outside of Toronto, I would like to hear your opinion

jeffb 01-14-2010 07:41 PM

Fuck that! It's bad enough that we have to pay for using the 407.

Ligeia 01-14-2010 07:47 PM

I would be all for private ownership of the roads (and the tolls that would be associated with such a strategy). This idea, on the other hand, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Given the current strategy, the amount you pay is NOT a function of how much you use it, so extending such a principle to others wouldn't be very consistent.

LX 01-14-2010 08:03 PM

It would basically be a tax on the suburbanites that don't pay into a lot of what they use when they commute here and make their living here. I would think it would promote less vehicular traffic if done right, with money going to improved train and transit systems. It's time to pay up front in planning for the future, instead of continuing pay all of the total costs of hanging on to the ways of the past.

DVS 01-14-2010 08:07 PM

Well the biggest problem in the city is that we are 50 years behind in public transit. I'd hate tolls esp working in a job where Sales calls and Deliveries are at the forefront. You give the gov't more money they find a way to mishandle it. THis is why Socialism only works until u run out of money

LX 01-14-2010 08:23 PM

And Capitalism seems to be all about making money out of running out of money.

I agree that you don't want to encourage increased spending willy nilly. The money should have specific targets as is usually the case with tolls. Tolls work very well in that respect. It's still beyond me why this province built a beautiful toll road, made it work, and then sold it to a private company for a one-time boost in their budget while we got increased rates immediately. There's a difference between year to year government spending and actual public investments that can last generations.

DVS 01-14-2010 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by •LX• (Post 310313)
And Capitalism seems to be all about making money out of running out of money.

I agree that you don't want to encourage increased spending willy nilly. The money should have specific targets as is usually the case with tolls. Tolls work very well in that respect. It's still beyond me why this province built a beautiful toll road, made it work, and then sold it to a private company for a one-time boost in their budget while we got increased rates immediately. There's a difference between year to year government spending and actual public investments that can last generations.

I don't mind the fact the gov't sold the 407. The gov't would never figure out a way on how to make money on the toll road anyways. Also, problably the only problem the gov't made was that they sold it at the wrong time. Gov't just dont' have a clue on how to make money. Specific Targets on what to do with toll revenues? Please like the gov't would exactly tell us where money goes esp when you have a change in gov't.

I shouldn't have made a pot shot at socialism as I do agree with some stances they make. However; I just hate it when gov't puts their nose in things they don't have to. Like really do we know exactly where the profits of Liquor goes in Ontario? Well supposedly in Health Care but isn't that a novel idea. Use the profits in Liquor to health care to help the people that were abusing liquor. How nice.


I'll say this if the feds actually cared about the bigggest city in the country we would get a cut from them to build transit. You would think Toronto would have a little more priority in this country.

LX 01-14-2010 09:08 PM

The money that comes in from tolls can be targeted and audited. It's just a matter of whether or not that would be part of the proposal or not. That is the way I would want to see it done, and I don't think it would be the first instance.

Selling the 407 made money on a one-time basis, and that would have been the case whenever it was sold. Before selling, the money was targeted there actually, up to the point where it was paid for - and then with the costs behind them, they went for a short-term windfall that would help explain away all of the out of control spending (or so they hoped) instead of being able to look at long-term budgetary stability. I don't think it's governments that have a problem with controlling money - it's politically motivated number-crunching that gets out of whack. The Chinese have no problem making money, and keeping track of it, to the point where they are able to buy up all of ours.

DVS 01-14-2010 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by •LX• (Post 310343)
The money that comes in from tolls can be targeted and audited. It's just a matter of whether or not that would be part of the proposal or not. That is the way I would want to see it done, and I don't think it would be the first instance.

You would want to see it done but I've seen this gameshow time and time again. The general public forget about it and the numbers get all skewed. I suppose I don't have any faith in the gov't being treated as a business is all. Big reason that I am for gov't to be less apart of our lives than more

Quote:

Selling the 407 made money on a one-time basis, and that would have been the case whenever it was sold. Before selling, the money was targeted there actually, up to the point where it was paid for - and then with the costs behind them, they went for a short-term windfall that would help explain away all of the out of control spending (or so they hoped) instead of being able to look at long-term budgetary stability. I don't think it's governments that have a problem with controlling money - it's politically motivated number-crunching that gets out of whack. The Chinese have no problem making money, and keeping track of it, to the point where they are able to buy up all of ours.

Well if you want to revoke our rights as human beings and have to be controlled by the gov't I guess we can follow their platform

fancylad 01-14-2010 09:40 PM

I'm fine with it if it's for people that don't live in Toronto.
i.e. if you commute from Mississauga everyday.

LX 01-14-2010 09:51 PM

My point was not to promote the Chinese government. It was to show that it's not about government, but politics and "skewing" of the numbers. The numbers can be strictly audited, plain and simple. And budgets are needed no matter how you want to see government. If you want to see any kind of public investments, then you have to find income, or play around with numbers and sell off shit that is going to maybe make the numbers look better for one budgetary year. I like the idea of finding the income ahead of time, targeting it, and then spending money that is actually there as planned. That is actually not much of how the business world works, unfortunately. Usually the business is done by going broke when the numbers are proven to not add up, and then looking for assistance from...the government. Kind of like the way Mel did things.

DVS 01-14-2010 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fancylad (Post 310365)
I'm fine with it if it's for people that don't live in Toronto.
i.e. if you commute from Mississauga everyday.

Well I'll agree to that. Missisauga have pulled many stunts to screw toronto. Maybe its time to get them back

DVS 01-14-2010 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by •LX• (Post 310374)
My point was not to promote the Chinese government. It was to show that it's not about government, but politics and "skewing" of the numbers. The numbers can be strictly audited, plain and simple. And budgets are needed no matter how you want to see government. If you want to see any kind of public investments, then you have to find income, or play around with numbers and sell off shit that is going to maybe make the numbers look better for one budgetary year. I like the idea of finding the income ahead of time, targeting it, and then spending money that is actually there as planned. That is actually not much of how the business world works, unfortunately. Usually the business is done by going broke when the numbers are proven to not add up, and then looking for assistance from...the government. Kind of like the way Mel did things.

Well Mel was a little bit of a nut but he did some things right. I still say what your thinking is an idealistic measure. However; it may get people to respect Toronto. Places like Etobicoke, North York, Scarb have sacrificed big pools of money to keep the downtown core running. You could almost say they were better off running on their own. I know you can ask some etobicoke die hards this and they will defenately agree. Maybe just maybe this is a why to get 905ers to help.


I still say the Feds should cough up more dough to help TOronto rather than putting up tolls. Tolls do work but I ask you this don't we get taxed enough in this god forsaken country. Like HST is around the corner now this

Windex 01-15-2010 05:58 AM

there wouldn't be heavier traffic necessarily
aren't there stickers you put on your windshield that get scanned as you pass through tolls?

LX 01-15-2010 06:35 AM

Yeah - what a god forsaken country this is. We should get more money from the feds. Great. And please make sure that the feds don't raise taxes in order to provide that money. DVS - it sounds like you are a true capitalist. Please just give me something for nothing or I'm against it in principle.

Acie 01-15-2010 09:18 AM

I read the title as..."Should there be trolls in toronto?"

I was like...hell yeah, that would be cool.

Barracuda 01-15-2010 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acie (Post 310528)
I read the title as..."Should there be trolls in toronto?"

I was like...hell yeah, that would be cool.

Holy shit.

I WAS JUST about to post exactly that.

Get outta my head!!!!!!!


I'm frightened.

Acie 01-15-2010 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barracuda (Post 310531)
Holy shit.

I WAS JUST about to post exactly that.

Get outta my head!!!!!!!


I'm frightened.

Haha


I'm frightened too...of trolls that is.

http://www.saynotocrack.com/wp-conte...8/12/troll.jpg

Barracuda 01-15-2010 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acie (Post 310542)
Haha


I'm frightened too...of trolls that is.

http://www.saynotocrack.com/wp-conte...8/12/troll.jpg

I used to have one.

But i never wanted to be his friend.

Acie 01-15-2010 09:31 AM

I think I had one on a pencil.


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