Routine infant male circumcision - Page 6

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View Poll Results: Should routine infant male circumcision be legal?
Yes 11 44.00%
No 14 56.00%
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Old 02-06-2010, 07:53 PM   #101 (permalink)
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I find the mention of the little pinky finger in a discussion about penises a little too close for comfort where unintended comparisons are concerned.
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Old 02-06-2010, 08:01 PM   #102 (permalink)
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I find the mention of the little pinky finger in a discussion about penises a little too close for comfort where unintended comparisons are concerned.
I think Ligeia brought up the pinky because of Stonez's initial criteria for why a parent should be allowed to have their kid circumcised. That aside, I, too, disagree with the analogy. I didn't like when people advocating circumcision made the comparision to vaccinations. I don't think the pinky analogy is totally appropriate beyond the intial criteria that Stonz set up. With the initial criteria out of the way, we could probably move on.
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Old 02-06-2010, 08:22 PM   #103 (permalink)
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2 - I'm showing you one of the most respected studies, quoted repeatedly by doctors. Show me the studies you are referring to. I'm genuinely interested. Are they from respectable academic journals? Or are we talking about bullshit that was funded by a political/religious group and then published in a non-peer reviewed article format. That has happened with Rabbi's trying to justify circumcision as an AIDS preventative.

If you can find the time to track them down, I respectfully request that you show us your studies. Not trying to be a dick, but people are talking a lot of shit in this thread and not backing it up.
Honestly, I'm not going to go hound these studies respectively because frankly I just can't get around to it. But this article itself uses multiple sources/studies done from a wide range of time.

Sexual effects of circumcision - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know it's wikipedia, and I never like to use it as a source, but there some info there done by many studies.

Check it out...
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Old 02-06-2010, 08:27 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Honestly, I'm not going to go hound these studies respectively because frankly I just can't get around to it. But this article itself uses multiple sources/studies done from a wide range of time.

Sexual effects of circumcision - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know it's wikipedia, and I never like to use it as a source, but there some info there done by many studies.

Check it out...


Quote:
Penile sensitivity and sexual sensation
Results of studies of the effect on penile sensitivity have been mixed. In a British study of 150 men circumcised as adults for penile problems, Masood et al. found that 38% reported improved penile sensation (p=0.01), 18% reported worse penile sensation, while the remainder (44%) reported no change.[1] In a survey of men circumcised as adults for medical (93%) or elective (7%) reasons, Fink et al. found an association between adult circumcision and decreased penile sensitivity that "bordered on statistical significance" (p=0.08).[2]
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:17 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Jeff and Gizzle, later I'm going to respond to specific studies from the wikipedia page. But for now, I'm going to make some basic criticisms.

This thread is about INFANT circumcision. The studies you just posted are about ADULT circumcision. This distinction is important for a couple of reasons that I will elaborate on further in another post in which I will address the methodology of multiple studies.

When infants are circumcised, they go a significant period of time without the head of the penis being protected by the foreskin. The head rubs up against underwear on a daily basis. Over time, the head can become less sensitive. Basic logic dictates that in INFANT circumcision the potential for lost sensitivity is greater than if the child has a foreskin. If an adult is circumcised, the head doesn't immediately become less sensitive. It would take time. In fact, an ADULT who is circumcised might find that sex feels different because the head that was protected, and is very sensitive, is now more exposed during sex. So, initially, some men may prefer that experience. Others would want the foreskin. It's subjective. In the years immediately following an ADULT circumcision, a particular man may like having the head uncovered all the time during intercourse rather than the piston like action of having a foreskin. It's possible. But that adult chose those circumstances. An INFANT who is circumcised is denied the opportunity to be in control of their circumstances.

The comparison to infant circumcision can't totally be made, since those kids go decades and decades with an exposed head rubbing on things. In later adulthood, due to exposure, the head on the penis of the person circumcised as an infant would probably lose more sensitivity than the head of an adult who was circumcised much later. Basic logic would dictate that its problematic to make the comparison between adults who are circumcised and infants who circumcised...due to the variables not being the same.

FURTHERMORE, and this is a SIGNIFICANT problem with these studies, they are not following up many years after the circumcision. The head of the penis is not going to lose sensitivity right away; that takes time. A study done properly would follow up and see if more and more sensitivity is lost over a long period. Again, men circumcised as INFANTS go decades without their foreskin protecting their head. It's different than adult circumcision.

The 2007 Sorrells study that I cited demonstrates that the foreskin IS very sensitive and people are losing something that can BROADEN THE RANGE of pleasure. If a particular adult is circumcised, that particular adult may not recognize the lost sensitivity immediately, since he is enjoying having the head of his penis fully exposed throughout sexual intercourse. But what are the long term effects? And I don't mean a couple of years here. I'm talking decades. If a man is circumcised as an infant, what kind of sensitivity does he have in his 40s? Think about it, especially you, Jeff.

Now, there is an EVEN MORE IMPORTANT point I want to make. Sexual pleasure is subjective. Many variables come into play. If only a certain % of guys say that circumcision led to a loss of sexual pleasure, that should be enough to suggest that infants should not have it imposed upon them. It's not the parents right to decide whether or not the kid loses the possibility of more enjoyable sex. And the Sorrels study indicates that the foreskin provides more sensitivity. It may be up for debate as to whether all circucised men immediately recognize the loss of sensitivity, but something is still lost, and some men recognize it.
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:27 PM   #106 (permalink)
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My girlfriend works at a long term care facility where she routinely has to clean up nasty pus-oozing infections from underneath the hood of poor old fellas who aren't routinely cleaned as thourough as they should be by some of the other nurses.

Needless to say, she wanted to have our child snipped.

Considering I am also snipped, I was for it.

Unfortunately, I immediately started second-guessing the decision. Started thinking it was probably the initiative of some religious agenda to stop men from touching themselves.

I don't like reading this thread because it makes me second guess the decision once again.


But, oh well.

The little fucker is snipped. He has to deal with it.
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:33 PM   #107 (permalink)
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But, oh well.

The little fucker is snipped. He has to deal with it.
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:37 PM   #108 (permalink)
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As for the whole sensitivity argument....


Their are a whole bunch of circumcised men out their who will tell you they're having great sex....


More sensitive....so what..

Sometimes when something is to sensitive, you got to back off.


So again, who cares if their is a little lost sensitivity. It's not like uncircumcised men across the globe are having a hard time getting off.
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:42 PM   #109 (permalink)
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If I had a nickel for all the times I heard two meatheads...

"I get more sensitivity dude, and have better orgasms!"

"Oh yeah!!, I can handle more friction and can bang for longer periods of time!"

"but my foreskin gives me more girth!"

Any sexual argument involved with circumcision is silly.
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:44 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
As for the whole sensitivity argument....


Their are a whole bunch of circumcised men out their who will tell you they're having great sex....


More sensitive....so what..

Sometimes when something is to sensitive, you got to back off.


So again, who cares if their is a little lost sensitivity. It's not like uncircumcised men across the globe are having a hard time getting off.
+1

I'm circumcised and have no complaints as far as senitivity or my sex life in general. I'm sensitive enough thank you...
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:57 PM   #111 (permalink)
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My girlfriend works at a long term care facility where she routinely has to clean up nasty pus-oozing infections from underneath the hood of poor old fellas who aren't routinely cleaned as thourough as they should be by some of the other nurses.

Needless to say, she wanted to have our child snipped.

Considering I am also snipped, I was for it.

Unfortunately, I immediately started second-guessing the decision. Started thinking it was probably the initiative of some religious agenda to stop men from touching themselves.

I don't like reading this thread because it makes me second guess the decision once again.


But, oh well.

The little fucker is snipped. He has to deal with it.
Wow. Such a compassionate post. lol Yeah, the "little fucker" has to deal with it.

If you don't like reading the thread, then don't read it. The fact that anything here is capable of making you second guess your thoughts, is quite revealing, though.

As I've stated on multiple occasions in this thread, there are social, cultural and historical reasons for why circumcision has lasted so long. It's not just a matter of religion, although views associated with relgious beliefs affected the evolution of this procedure over the years.
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:01 PM   #112 (permalink)
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As for the whole sensitivity argument....


Their are a whole bunch of circumcised men out their who will tell you they're having great sex....


More sensitive....so what..

Sometimes when something is to sensitive, you got to back off.


So again, who cares if their is a little lost sensitivity. It's not like uncircumcised men across the globe are having a hard time getting off.
You said "so what?" to the more sensitive issue. Well, I'd say that's for the individual to decide, not an individuals parents.

And the funny thing about youre whole "back off" comment, is that some urologists argue that the nerve endings in the foreskin provide a man with a better assesment of when he is about to reach orgasm. It doesn't creep up on the guy as fast. The foreskin enables the guy to know when to slow down and change pace to further enjoy the experience.

Ironically, you, sir, just made another argument for retaining the foreskin. Thanks for the help.
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:08 PM   #113 (permalink)
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You said "so what?" to the more sensitive issue. Well, I'd say that's for the individual to decide, not an individuals parents.

And the funny thing about youre whole "back off" comment, is that some urologists argue that the nerve endings in the foreskin provide a man with a better assesment of when he is about to reach orgasm. It doesn't creep up on the guy as fast. The foreskin enables the guy to know when to slow down and change pace to further enjoy the experience.

Ironically, you, sir, just made another argument for retaining the foreskin. Thanks for the help.
I challenge any man here with his foreskin to a orgasm control competition.
Let's do it.

The rules are get an erection, and hold it for 28 minutes, and then count down from twenty and cum on the count of 1. We can do it in a handicapped bathroom stall of your choosing.
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:09 PM   #114 (permalink)
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If I had a nickel for all the times I heard two meatheads...

"I get more sensitivity dude, and have better orgasms!"

"Oh yeah!!, I can handle more friction and can bang for longer periods of time!"

"but my foreskin gives me more girth!"

Any sexual argument involved with circumcision is silly.
It's silly in your opinion. And you have a pyshological investment in diminishing this to "a couple of meatheads" talking, since it can allow you to just dismiss these questions.

And what exactly makes your opinion worthy of deciding what type and amount of pleasure your son derives from his sex life?

Are you going to tell him how fast or slow he has to fuck, too? lol Okay, maybe I went too far, but you kind of opened yourself up for that one.

Above all, this is an ethical and moral issue for me. I do NOT need the sexual pleasure argument to make the case that an individual should have the right to decide for themselves IF and WHEN they are to be circumcised.

Did you even read the pamphlet I posted from the Canadian Pediatric Society (CPS)? You can't even make a "cost benefit analysis" argument for this. The CPS does NOT endorese circumcision, and it hasn't for almost 15 years. Some doctors REFUSE to do it on ethical grounds.

But, yeah, I'm just another "meathead." Great comparison.
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:10 PM   #115 (permalink)
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I never called you a meathead, but the fact that you think that, is quite revealing.
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:11 PM   #116 (permalink)
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I challenge any man here with his foreskin to a orgasm control competition.
Let's do it.

The rules are get an erection, and hold it for 28 minutes, and then count down from twenty and cum on the count of 1. We can do it in a handicapped bathroom stall of your choosing.
If I had a foreskin, I'd do it....in the name of science. Unfortunately, I am "sliced and diced", as "Aar" put it.

Some of the guys I used to play hockey with might be off for that challenge, though. I played with some weird dudes.
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:14 PM   #117 (permalink)
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I never called you a meathead, but the fact that you think that, is quite revealing.
I said great comparison. And that's what you were doing, comparing the sexual argument to what "meatheads" say. You called ANY sexual argument with circumcision "silly" right after talking about "meatheads." It was very passive agressive.
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:16 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Wow, 6 pages of nothing but tips of dicks. Congrats guys.
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:27 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Wow, 6 pages of nothing but tips of dicks. Congrats guys.
You know what, DK? You're frequently the voice of reason.
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:38 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Don't you think the issue is big enough, and that the sexual adequacy of circumsized people has been demonstrated enough,

that the sensitivity argument really is kind of silly???

Last edited by bjjs; 02-06-2010 at 11:40 PM.
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