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pzabby 03-31-2011 11:07 PM

RF Election!
 
i thought it would be intresting to see what view the majority of our site takes with the election rolling around and all. vote on the above poll and explain your reasoning below. ill start by voting liberal. the one greatest asset the liberals have this time around is the proposed education help. 4000 dollars/student, 6000 for low income families. universities are expensive, and everyone should get a chance to be educated, so this is a great idea seeing how low the average canadian income is.

Dark Knight 03-31-2011 11:10 PM

I support the Lemon Party.

jeffb 03-31-2011 11:13 PM

Liberal? As much as i consider myself a Liberal i absolutely can't stand nor trust Michael Ignatieff. To be completely honest, looking at the list of candidates makes me want to cry. What a clusterfuck of asswipes!

pzabby 03-31-2011 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 525502)
Liberal? As much as i consider myself a Liberal i absolutely can't stand nor trust Michael Ignatieff. To be completely honest, looking at the list of candidates makes me want to cry. What a clusterfuck of asswipes!

i agree. liberals havent had a strong candiate in years. first dion, now ignatieff. but remember, its not one person that makes the government, its the party. you're essentially voting on a party's ideas. i personally support the NDP however i don't want the vote to be split among the left so that the conservatives will win because i would much rather have ignatieff running the show than decieving, trash talking, harper.

fancylad 04-01-2011 06:41 AM

This whole election is so ridiculous. A complete waste of everyones money and time. It seems like we are going to the polls once a year (i know it's probably more like once every 2 years, but for fucks sake that's just not needed). I don't know, i don't keep the closest eye on politics, but from where i stand the country seems to be doing pretty good. I don't see the need to change anything. Why are we doing this election again?

LX 04-01-2011 06:50 AM

Why? Because the Harper government is not happy being a minority government. Personally, I'm more than happy to have them as a minority government, and it should be entirely workable, but instead Harper has acted pretty much exactly like Martin did before him - you know that guy that Harper was so critical of. It really is dumb.

jeffb 04-01-2011 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fancylad (Post 525549)
This whole election is so ridiculous. A complete waste of everyones money and time. It seems like we are going to the polls once a year (i know it's probably more like once every 2 years, but for fucks sake that's just not needed). I don't know, i don't keep the closest eye on politics, but from where i stand the country seems to be doing pretty good. I don't see the need to change anything. Why are we doing this election again?

3 elections in 6 or 7yrs. Pathetic.

'trane 04-01-2011 09:23 AM

2 things -

first of all, this election is neither pathetic nor a waste of money. we have a deeply divided electorate, and a pm who wants to try to secure a majority while also being found in contempt of parliament - a historic first in the history of our country. the fact that the house lost confidence in the government is the exercise of parliamentary democracy. if anyone really thinks that this is a watse of time, i have no idea what to say. people around the world fight for the opportunity to have a parliament that works this way, and we shun it when it happens for us... mind boggling. at the same time we have an opposition that wants an election too, and it's widely supported by much of the voting public. we are at a fascinating moment politically as the country is being divided by region and by social ideology. it is critical that we take the time to assess where we are. if there is significant change, then the electorate has spoken and it was important. if not, and if we just end up in the same place afterwards it sends all sorts of important messages -

-that the conservative momentum is still not enough to govern (likely ending the leadership of stephen harper)
-that the electorate has still not forgotten the excesses of the last liberal regime
-that we have a fundamental urban-rural split that must be mended for the country to really move forward
-that our electoral system needs to be changed
-that certain kinds of crises are not important to the public
-that the leadership of all parties needs to change to make any real progress
etc.

whatever the outcome, this exercise of our only democratic involvement is hugely important. we are rarely asked to participate. how this can possibly be an inconvenience once every 3 years is astonishing to me. and the cost, quite simply, is not a burden on this country. the g20, which many people here supported, cost far more than this election will, and canada gained nothing from that. the contempt finding was a critical moment in the governance of our country. you simply cannot ignore that or it sets a precedent about what kind of transparency is fundamental to our democracy. it requires an election so that the people can voice their stance on whether this is an issue that they think necessitates change. if we are not given that opportunity we completely fail at holding our leadership accountable. surely this exercise of the basic democratic principle is worth spending money on.

second, and this is directed at jeff, i'd love to hear a reason for your distaste for ignatieff. i am not a liberal supporter and don't plan on voting for them this year, so this is not an attempt to defend my man or anything. i absolutely don't understand this nonsense about him as a person, and i have yet to hear one convincing argument as to why he should be considered to be untrustworthy or deserving of ridicule. is there a policy standpoint that bothers you? maybe just one or two examples of something actually related to government that would impact your analysis of him? or is this just an irrational hate?

Shadowfax 04-01-2011 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 525502)
What a clusterfuck of asswipes!

i couldn't agree more
not one of these parties have what i would even remotely consider a "future leader" for this country moving forward

meet the new boss...same as the old boss

jeffb 04-01-2011 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Mxyzptlk (Post 525575)
i couldn't agree more
not one of these parties have what i would even remotely consider a "future leader" for this country moving forward

meet the new boss...same as the old boss

Seriously, when was the last time there was a really exciting politician in this country that was at least somewhat inspiring, got people excited about the process of voting and really had personality? I've never seen such bland characters in my life.

fancylad 04-01-2011 09:31 AM

Hey trane, good post. I know it was partly directed at me and i will obviously stand down as you know way more about these things than i do. There is a reason why i usually don't post in politically related threads. hahaha.

fancylad 04-01-2011 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 525578)
Seriously, when was the last time there was a really exciting politician in this country that was at least somewhat inspiring, got. People excited about the process of voting and really had personality? I've never seen such bland characters in my life.

dude what the hell do you want? An entertainer?

Sorry but as little as i know about politics i know that that was one of the most baseless, unfounded criticisms ever. Seriously... who fucking cares how exciting someone is when their job is to run a country?

crazyness.

'trane 04-01-2011 09:35 AM

i don't want you to stand down fancy, you have a voice and should use it. this is about discussion, not about winning. i am excited by our political process. i find it both fascinatong and inspiring, especially in the context of what is happening around the world with people fighting for the opportunities we have. all i want is for people to take it seriously and to engage with it, and so i am interested in discussing it with people who seem tio dismiss it.

there are lots of reasons to be frustrated with our political process, but i see these as reasons to get engaged, not tobecome disengaged. if we don't work to inspire change, we can be certain that things will always be the same.

'trane 04-01-2011 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 525578)
Seriously, when was the last time there was a really exciting politician in this country that was at least somewhat inspiring, got people excited about the process of voting and really had personality? I've never seen such bland characters in my life.

to echo fancy's point - why is it up to the politicians to excite you? do you really have such little interest in your own political voice that you need someone to be entertaining in order to get serious about the matters at hand?

jeffb 04-01-2011 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fancylad (Post 525581)
dude what the hell do you want? An entertainer?

Sorry but as little as i know about politics i know that that was one of the most baseless, unfounded criticisms ever. Seriously... who fucking cares how exciting someone is when their job is to run a country?

crazyness.

So you wouldn't want a leader that inspires people to engage in the process and get more people to take interest in our politics. We haven't had some like that in decades. I'm not saying it's the most important thing, but more people here are more interested in US politics then our own. You argue that many people in this country are disengaged in our own politics.

Claudius 04-01-2011 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 525585)
So you wouldn't want a leader that inspires people to engage in the process and get more people to take interest in our politics. We haven't had some like that in decades.

It isn't the job of the leader to inspire you to participate in politics. It's essentially, your role as a citizen to participate in politics.

Remember, politics and it's form in Canada is representative of you. Why others seem to believe it belongs to the realm of some other people and need to be inspired by someone is beyond me. Why not participate and actually involve yourself when you're going to be directly effected?

That being said, again, I'm a ballot refuser.

Shadowfax 04-01-2011 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 525578)
Seriously, when was the last time there was a really exciting politician in this country that was at least somewhat inspiring, got people excited about the process of voting and really had personality? I've never seen such bland characters in my life.

too be honest, i could care less about someone who is exciting, has personality etc etc
i want someone who has a clear cut vision as to how this country should move forward over the next 20 or so years
imho, not one of these 'cookie-cutter" politicians has anything different to offer

'trane 04-01-2011 10:16 AM

i don't buy that for a second. it's pretty clear to me what the greens and the ndp want from this country for the next 10 years.

there is a lot of overlap between the tories and the grits, but that doesn't mean they aren't clear about what they stand for either. 20 years is a hell of a long time for a political party to be looking forward in terms of a political platform. can't say i can remember any politicians having that long-term a vision.

that said, there have already been - even this early in the campaign - several long-term policy announcements thatr illustrate different views on the political (and especially social) direction of this country over the forseeable future. education, health care, immigration, urban development, debt reduction, the economy - these are some of the most central issues, and fairly clear policy directions are widely available.

jeffb 04-01-2011 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Mxyzptlk (Post 525595)
too be honest, i could care less about someone who is exciting, has personality etc etc
i want someone who has a clear cut vision as to how this country should move forward over the next 20 or so years
imho, not one of these 'cookie-cutter" politicians has anything different to offer

But that's kind of what I'm saying to a degree, someone engaging that has vision which in turn inspires people to get more engaged. I'm not saying be an empty rock star wiith no vision. Sorry, but a good leader usually has the power to inspire and get the diengaged engaged. At least that's my opinion. Who was the last politician in this country that you looked at and agreed with his vision long term for this country? When was the last politician in this country that you listened to that got you thinking he was clearly ahead of every other candidate, a standout? Wether it be his vision, policies, personality....anything?

'trane 04-01-2011 10:31 AM

if you can find more than a couple of those guys on a global scale i will be surprised.


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