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View Poll Results: which party do you support?
NDP 8 22.86%
Conservatives 7 20.00%
Green 7 20.00%
Bloc 3 8.57%
Liberal 10 28.57%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-26-2011, 07:55 PM   #161 (permalink)
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But the party being kept in tow would have been linked to bad practices and tired ideas. I think it would have been best for Kennedy to have had Dion bring his votes over to him. But no - the liberals need to whore themselves to french voters that lost interest so long ago. Ray would have been only slightly better than Dion, and not french. He could have lost all of Ontario along with Quebec. Ignatieff had the same image problem he is suffering from now. He looked like a warmed-over Martin. Hoorah - who didn't want that at the time? Anybody who wants to get a sense of how little any of it matters needs to look at how every campaign has involved candidates unable to generate much interest in the two or three useless ideas they might have rolling around in their heads, trying to win by getting us all to notice how much worse their counterparts are. It's really sad.

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Old 04-26-2011, 08:58 PM   #162 (permalink)
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But the party being kept in tow would have been linked to bad practices and tired ideas. I think it would have been best for Kennedy to have had Dion bring his votes over to him. But no - the liberals need to whore themselves to french voters that lost interest so long ago. Ray would have been only slightly better than Dion, and not french. He could have lost all of Ontario along with Quebec. Ignatieff had the same image problem he is suffering from now. He looked like a warmed-over Martin. Hoorah - who didn't want that at the time? Anybody who wants to get a sense of how little any of it matters needs to look at how every campaign has involved candidates unable to generate much interest in the two or three useless ideas they might have rolling around in their heads, trying to win by getting us all to notice how much worse their counterparts are. It's really sad.
I think Dion on platform and policy was the hands down best choice. But was the absolute worst when it came to selling that ideology to the public and the party. His timid persona allowed for the baby to be thrown out with the bath water. Kennedy would have been the better choice to sell the Dion agenda. The proof being we look at the carbon tax as a useless idea.
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:19 PM   #163 (permalink)
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I think Dion on platform and policy was the hands down best choice. But was the absolute worst when it came to selling that ideology to the public and the party. His timid persona allowed for the baby to be thrown out with the bath water. Kennedy would have been the better choice to sell the Dion agenda. The proof being we look at the carbon tax as a useless idea.
yep - completely agree. They allowed themselves to get sucked into the idea that they needed to always alternate between a french-speaking Quebecer and an english-speaking Qubecer. The party couldn't get out from the dead weight of being all about power, even when they tried to present new ideas. They needed to make a break with the past, but they remained slaves to all the old power structures that they had relied on for so long. Now they lurch from one pile of market-tested pap to another.
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Old 04-26-2011, 11:46 PM   #164 (permalink)
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yep - completely agree. They allowed themselves to get sucked into the idea that they needed to always alternate between a french-speaking Quebecer and an english-speaking Qubecer. The party couldn't get out from the dead weight of being all about power, even when they tried to present new ideas. They needed to make a break with the past, but they remained slaves to all the old power structures that they had relied on for so long. Now they lurch from one pile of market-tested pap to another.
i agree completely. its pathetic how weak the leadership has been over the liberals after cretien. i really hope one day they fix it up because its becoming downright urgent, especially if harper wins a majority. Harper's goal, in a sense, is to turn canada into the 51s't state of america, and i really don't want that to happen. Sure they might be the super power of the world but aside from the people sitting on wall street businesses getting paid millions/year in bonuses, who there is truly happy? this brings it back to the discussion of communism vs. capitalism where the way i see it, a good mix of both can produce a well of country. which is what we have in canada today but sadly, it may not last as long as everyone thinks.
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Old 04-27-2011, 06:50 AM   #165 (permalink)
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I doubt we'll see a majority, and even if we do it could be the beginning of the end for the Conservatives, unless they truly move to the center. Even then, there have been so many lies in their campaign that it's hard to see how they fail to pay some price when everything comes to light.
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Old 04-27-2011, 06:58 AM   #166 (permalink)
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i agree completely. its pathetic how weak the leadership has been over the liberals after cretien. i really hope one day they fix it up because its becoming downright urgent, especially if harper wins a majority. Harper's goal, in a sense, is to turn canada into the 51s't state of america], and i really don't want that to happen. Sure they might be the super power of the world but aside from the people sitting on wall street businesses getting paid millions/year in bonuses, who there is truly happy? this brings it back to the discussion of communism vs. capitalism where the way i see it, a good mix of both can produce a well of country. which is what we have in canada today but sadly, it may not last as long as everyone thinks.
I have for the most part not really engaged in this with you, mostly because I am pretty sure you have no idea what your talking about, and thats ok.

You made a few statements that are absolutely ridonkulos.

1.Harper's goal, in a sense, is to turn canada into the 51s't state of america can you explain this please "in a sense"?

2.but aside from the people sitting on wall street businesses getting paid millions/year in bonuses, who there is truly happy? This is garbage, first, if it is such a bad place why does the majority of the world in poor, and war torn countries want to move there and secondly, the people on "Wall Street" as you call them have probably been the least happy people over the last 5 years. This statement is bunk, sensationalist.

3.this brings it back to the discussion of communism vs. capitalism where the way i see it, a good mix of both can produce a well of country errr, not possible. Well I guess it could be, do you mean Communism or communism?....
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:31 AM   #167 (permalink)
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no points about how capitalism exists in theory only, and amounts to little else than a rigged game?
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:57 AM   #168 (permalink)
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no points about how capitalism exists in theory only, and amounts to little else than a rigged game?
Nope, I don't disagree, I prefer the rigged game to any alternatives.

I do find it a little disappointing that you let Pzabby's craziness slide by though. Sure you are not a fan of the right, but most of the post was nonsense.

If someone suggested that the NDP wants to fine corporations, and legalize crack, I at least would have disagreed.
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:00 AM   #169 (permalink)
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the people on "Wall Street" as you call them have probably been the least happy people over the last 5 years.
This statement is bunk, sensationalist.
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:02 AM   #170 (permalink)
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This statement is bunk, sensationalist.
Nope it all relative, sure some have alot of cake. Most took a massive hit, and some committed suicide.

I concede, should have said "The people on Wall Street, are less happy than before"
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:06 AM   #171 (permalink)
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my buddy, who works for an investment bank on wall street, just bought a nice big house in connecticut and a membership at winged foot. and had a big bonus last year. he's really depressed.
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:26 AM   #172 (permalink)
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my buddy, who works for an investment bank on wall street, just bought a nice big house in connecticut and a membership at winged foot. and had a big bonus last year. he's really depressed.
The exception proves the rule.
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:28 AM   #173 (permalink)
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meaningless phrase.
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:47 AM   #174 (permalink)
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meaningless phrase.
Dude, it would be crazy and base argumentative to suggest that "wall street" (meaning people invest in the market for a living) have had a good few years. Most have lost a ton of cash, now you can blame that on the dirty capitalist system, would be fine.
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:20 AM   #175 (permalink)
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Dude, it would be crazy and base argumentative to suggest that "wall street" (meaning people invest in the market for a living) have had a good few years. Most have lost a ton of cash, now you can blame that on the dirty capitalist system, would be fine.
i completely agree with the first sentence in your reply to pzabby, but if you are going to point out how 'ridonkulous' his points are, you can't be just as ridonkulous in your reply. the people on 'wall street' are not the least happy, that is obvious. and even when you changed that point to say they are 'less happy than before' it's still a significant exaggeration. maybe some are, but certainly many are not. sure there are people that lost out, but let's not compare that kind of unhappiness to what is facing huge swathes of american society where middle class people are facing poverty, and lower class people are facing homelessness. and lets not forget the 'wall street' types that have done very well, and the ones that have actually profited from the downturn, especially from the real estate side.

i don't think capitalism is bad, but i don't have a lot of sympathy for the banks right now either.

all i'm saying is we need to keep the idea of happiness - especially when derived from financial position - in perspective.
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:22 AM   #176 (permalink)
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the trouble I've been having in my riding is that I can't vote with my heart or conscience. The conservative candidate naturally has a strong showing because of all the vote splitting going on between the Greens, NDP, and Libs. We have a Liberal MP right now, who is neck-and-neck with the Conesrvative in all the advance polls and I was going to vote Green or NDP as I like how both of those candidates have handled themselves thus far.
The conservative candidate, Marty Burke has missed all but one of the nine public debates, has broken a couple of electoral laws, and refuses to be interviewed by any media whatsoever. I think his behaviour is a part of the new conservative party mandate of screening any and all, and behaving like they're holier than thou above the law and politics.

So my predicament is now I have to vote Liberal so this guy doesn't make it in, an aspect the Liberal candidate has used to try and sway voters away from him. Obviously the first-past-the-post system necessitates a strategic vote, which means that our electoral system is in dire need or reform. I did the CBC's vote compass, and by their logic, there isn't much ideological distance between the Green, NDP, and Liberal, whereas the Cons are way out in right field. Which means that in reality, the majority of Canadians don't support the Conservatives, but because of our system, there's probably a shit load of vote splitting that goes on between the three (and four in Quebec) parties.

In essence I've got a choice between a Conservative majority or a Coalition government. I'm quite fine with their being a coalition. It actually would reflect the actual majority of what Canadians voted for.
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Old 04-27-2011, 01:10 PM   #177 (permalink)
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Nope, I don't disagree, I prefer the rigged game to any alternatives.
Really? So a well-regulated system that allowed for honest trade and investment would be a problem for you? You do realize that we are all being fucked over right now by high prices, not due to supply shortages, but simply because smart dudes that once served the public well in high-tech jobs that rewarded them handsomely, now play a market wherein computers need only tell them when to buy commodities like wheat in new index markets that have nothing to do with the sorts of futures trading that had stabilized prices for both producers and consumers for over a century. The old way involved the concept of buying low and selling high, and with the new commodities index one need only buy at any price and keep on buying. The value goes up insofar as the buying continues, in spite of any kind of supply or demand. Eventually the bubble pops when the insanity reaches levels too hard for some people to ignore and they start to sell it short, meaning that they place bets on the price falling at some point, which then puts an end to the lie that the price couldn't possibly fall, and it all tumbles like the house of cards that it is. But we all still get to suffer through high prices for quite some time afterwards as those who took a hit from the high costs in actual retail, or those who took a hit by not selling short in time, try to recover their losses. And all along the fund managers on Wall Street make a ton of money no matter what happens, since they leave themselves covered by parking the numerous required fees into safer bets. The risk is all ours - even those who have no investments - even moreso for those in far-off countries that face starvation from their staple foods being priced out of their reach - and the rewards are aplenty in all scenarios on wall street.

Did some commit suicide? Surely. They also likely were haunted by their conscience as much, if not more than they suffered from visions of their own destitution. The system as it is rigged presently, is deeply immoral, destructive, and corrupt, and the inequality it breeds is entirely corrosive. It is a system that owns the government of the most powerful nation at all levels, to the point where that government fails to be able to provide aid and sustenance to it's own population when disasters strike, and instead turns to the same private conglomerates that weakened the government, so they may further engorge themselves by selling disaster relief and all the necessary infrastructure, all the while knowing that huge amounts of money will go unaccounted for.

The current system is quite evil from beginning to end. I'm thinking you might actually prefer some other alternatives that allow the rich to prosper without causing, and indeed requiring, death and destruction, instability and corruption, and power in the hands of the purely self-interested.

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Old 04-27-2011, 02:52 PM   #178 (permalink)
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This is garbage,
yes, he exaggerated. I agree.


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first, if it is such a bad place why does the majority of the world in poor, and war torn countries want to move there .
That's an absolutely terrible way of making a positive point about the U.S. We're talking about a first world, developed nation with plenty of resources. The bar should be higher.

In my opinion, the real criticism of the U.S. (and some other nations) is that there is more unhappiness than there needs to be, and more unhappiness than I think can reasonably be justified. The U.S. is a fucking awesome country for a % of the population who have access to the top institutions (employment training, universities, hospitals/medical care) but it fucking sucks for those who don't. Canada is more balanced. I think it is fair to be a bit worried that Harper wants to fuck with that balance, although there are obvious limitations on what he can do, so some of the bogeyman claims are exaggerated.

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Old 04-27-2011, 04:26 PM   #179 (permalink)
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more dirty pool from the harper campaign:

Sun Media honcho calls out ex-Harper operative on bogus Ignatieff Iraq photo - The Globe and Mail

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The photo might’ve become no more than a curiosity – forwarded among political junkies or perhaps becoming part of a “separated at birth” feature – had it not been fed to Sun Media by a former senior Harper staffer as part of a supposed scoop.
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Mr. Peladeau said that the low-resolution photo was part of a package of information given to Sun Media honcho Kory Teneycke, a former Harper spokesman, by Patrick Muttart, once deputy chief of staff in the Prime Minister’s Office.

“He claimed to be in possession of a report prepared by a ‘U.S. source’, outlining the activities and whereabouts of Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff in the weeks and months leading to the American invasion of Iraq in 2003,” Mr. Peladeau wrote.

The bombshell allegation was that Mr. Ignatieff had a much greater role than he’d admitted in the planning for the Iraq war. And in fact had spent time on a U.S. base, where he was supposedly cozy enough with his hosts to pose wearing their uniform and holding one of their assault rifles.

But definitively identifying the person in the low-res image was impossible and, after what Mr. Peladeau characterized as “much pressure,” a better image was coughed up. It revealed “without a doubt” that the man in the picture “could not be the Liberal leader.”
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The media mogul’s public lambasting comes after days of swirling talk about Mr. Ignatieff’s supposed role in the unpopular war. Last week Sun parliamentary scribe Brian Lilley wrote that the Liberal Leader, then a prominent scholar at Harvard, “was on the front lines of pre-invasion planning” because of his role on an academic advisory team that “helped U.S. state department and American military officials conduct strategy sessions.”

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“It is my belief that this planted information was intended to first and foremost seriously damage Michael Ignatieff's campaign but in the process to damage the integrity and credibility of Sun Media and, more pointedly, that of our new television operation, Sun News,” he wrote.
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Old 04-27-2011, 06:11 PM   #180 (permalink)
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There's no denying a certain Republican influence in play. The goal of a 51st US state might not be that far off. Except that I don't think those most likely to be involved think in terms of nation states all that much.
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