RF Election! - Page 3

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View Poll Results: which party do you support?
NDP 8 22.86%
Conservatives 7 20.00%
Green 7 20.00%
Bloc 3 8.57%
Liberal 10 28.57%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-10-2011, 08:23 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pzabby View Post
i've never understood mergers well. can you give me an overall summary on what they are?
BMO wanted to merge with RBC and CIBC wanted to merge with TD. This all came at the time when deregulation in the US allowed for finance companies to wreak havoc by coming up with a variety of schemes that created bubbles and turned the engines of economic growth (in the absence of good manufacturing jobs which have largely been moved overseas) into casino operations in which the house always wins. The house would be represented by powerful banks that are too big to fail, while the interests of citizens fall by the wayside.

Paul Martin had some understanding of the risks involved, and he put up roadblocks. But ultimately he probably would have let them go through if he had a majority.
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Old 04-10-2011, 08:45 PM   #42 (permalink)
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BMO wanted to merge with RBC and CIBC wanted to merge with TD. This all came at the time when deregulation in the US allowed for finance companies to wreak havoc by coming up with a variety of schemes that created bubbles and turned the engines of economic growth (in the absence of good manufacturing jobs which have largely been moved overseas) into casino operations in which the house always wins. The house would be represented by powerful banks that are too big to fail, while the interests of citizens fall by the wayside.

Paul Martin had some understanding of the risks involved, and he put up roadblocks. But ultimately he probably would have let them go through if he had a majority.
ah i c. these bank mergers were allowed in the u.s though am i right?
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Old 04-10-2011, 09:06 PM   #43 (permalink)
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ah i c. these bank mergers were allowed in the u.s though am i right?
different system. They we're just allowed to regulate themselves and set up a huge ponzi scheme that wrapped up all the flow of money. Finance, Insurance and Real Estate all ended up overlapping and taking part in the housing bubble, with crap mortgages tying all the bigger banks together in the same crap debt that taxpayers needed to pay off in order to keep them all from collapsing. After there had been huge payoffs for a few lucky souls of course.
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:22 PM   #44 (permalink)
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a fascinating development in the run up to the election:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1981130/

Quote:
Two buildings that cost $27-million in the lead-up to last year’s G8 meeting in Muskoka have become symbols of a new political headache for the Conservatives as they fight an election campaign in which they are accused of failure to be accountable and transparent with Parliament.

According to draft reports leaked on Monday, Auditor-General Sheila Fraser is set to condemn the so-called G8 Legacy Infrastructure Fund that was used by the Harper government to shower the riding of a key minister with spending projects.
The G8 facts must speak, immediately - The Globe and Mail

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The strategic leak of two early drafts of a still unpublished report of the Auditor-General on the federal government's controversial G8 infrastructure plan has left Canadians in a state of unknowing. They are about to discharge their highest duty of citizenship – the election of a new government – in the midst of a collection of unconfirmed but disturbing allegations about public spending.

In the interests of the electorate and the Parliament to which the Auditor-General is accountable, the final report must be released, immediately.

All the federal parties, including the Conservatives, the subjects of the allegations, are in agreement.
And the allegations get to the core of the main point of contrast – their managerial competence – that Stephen Harper and the Conservatives have been drawing with the other parties. They also hit on an issue, spending during the G8 summit, that the opposition parties had been raising since before the summit had even started.

There is a significant barrier. While the government is still functioning, guided primarily by permanent civil servants, Parliament itself has been dissolved for the election. And so Sheila Fraser, the Auditor-General, says, with considerable justification, that she cannot release the report until Parliament reconvenes.

In almost any other circumstance, that process ought to be respected.


But greater issues and the pressures of time are conspiring against due process. Appropriate spending from the public purse is among the first duties of government, and monitoring it is among the prime duties of Parliament. The allegations, which may not appear in the final report, include suggestions that money was spent on the direction of a resort owner and that the government was not transparent in its spending.

The urgency is great. With the leaders' debates being held tonight and tomorrow night, the air must be cleared. Insinuations about what might or might not be in the Auditor-General's report cannot be allowed to foul the debate.

In an interview with iPolitics, parliamentary scholar Ned Franks said that Peter Milliken, who still holds the office of Speaker of the House of Commons, could be urged, on unanimous agreement of the parties, to release the report if it was provided to him by the Auditor-General.

Now that they already know something, the usual procedures should not get in the way of Canadians' right to know the full story.

Last edited by 'trane; 04-11-2011 at 11:26 PM.
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Old 04-12-2011, 06:09 AM   #45 (permalink)
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i'll be voting for the conservatives. i was cool with them having a minority before so there's an equal balance between my liberal beliefs and the conservative actions, but our government is a joke right now. the coalition is shaming democracy and acting on behalf of themselves opposed to their appropriate level of say they've been allotted by the people.
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Old 04-12-2011, 06:38 AM   #46 (permalink)
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I'd say all the lies we are seeing from a party that came into power on the basis of promising to be transparent and trustworthy is about the highest crime against democracy. It looks like these guys could literally be criminals.
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Old 04-12-2011, 07:36 AM   #47 (permalink)
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i'll be voting for the conservatives. i was cool with them having a minority before so there's an equal balance between my liberal beliefs and the conservative actions, but our government is a joke right now. the coalition is shaming democracy and acting on behalf of themselves opposed to their appropriate level of say they've been allotted by the people.
this is flat out wrong. either you don't understand the role of coalitions in democracy or you are entirely too partisan. i'm so sick of this nonsensical notion that political parties should not be able to cooperate when collectively they hold far more seats than any one other party. coalitions exist all over the world in perfectly stable democracies, and we decry them here because people have bought into harper's senseless message. and this, even when harper himself endorsed a coalition to oust the martin liberals. it's bloody shameful to ignore a perfectly reasonable and effective option for governance.
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:19 AM   #48 (permalink)
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i've voted conservatives once before in my life and that was because d'eon was a doofus. i'll vote a second time because of the coalition.

i understand coalitions, but really, i don't care. our government is a representation of the people, not their own intensions and power struggles. we put these people in parliament to work, not to stop parliament to stop working. i suppose this is satisfying for some since they vote only to disrupt a majority rule anyways, be satisfied with it. i'm not. i'm not cool with these people wasting my time and blocking changes that could be beneficial to myself, friends and family just for the sake of showing no confidence.
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:40 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jackson Filth View Post
i've voted conservatives once before in my life and that was because d'eon was a doofus. i'll vote a second time because of the coalition.

i understand coalitions, but really, i don't care. our government is a representation of the people, not their own intensions and power struggles. we put these people in parliament to work, not to stop parliament to stop working. i suppose this is satisfying for some since they vote only to disrupt a majority rule anyways, be satisfied with it. i'm not. i'm not cool with these people wasting my time and blocking changes that could be beneficial to myself, friends and family just for the sake of showing no confidence.
So tell me: what do you think about Harper having prorogued parliament to avoid giving up power?
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Old 04-12-2011, 09:15 AM   #50 (permalink)
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a few things i need to say:

1. ignatieff has flatly ruled out forming a coalition, so you're creating anxiety about a non-existant bogeyman.

2. as to the point about government being a representation of the people: we vote for our local reps, not our prime minister. the political mechanism that creates government functions because a group of those elected reps have the numbers to form a government. if the will of the people is a fractured state of affairs with no majority, and a group of elected members choose to come together to represent the greater numbers and to cooperate and blend platforms to form a government, that is perfectly democratic, well within the laws that govern our political system, and actually a truer representation in political office of the greater will of the electorate. to insist that only the single party with the most votes should govern is both a misunderstanding of the political mechanism under which our country operates and a misrepresentation of what constitutes the popular will.

3. given that the harper tories both endorsed a previous coalition and prorogued parliament to stop the political process in order to hang on to power, does that not run counter to your point about representing people and not their own intentions and power struggles?

go ahead and vote tory, i have no problem with that. but do it for real reasons, not fabricated ones. i have no interest in telling people which group should or should not rule - you can decide that for yourself. my interest is in making sure we are having real political discourse and we don't obscure the truth be passing off lies and fairy tales as political reality.

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Old 04-13-2011, 12:34 PM   #51 (permalink)
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I really dont know who to vote for, I dont trust Iganieff though. I would probably be more likely to vote Liberal if they had a better leader. What's the main differences between Liberal and Conservative other than Conservatives are American-like, and Liberals are more likely to support social services and things like that?
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:56 PM   #52 (permalink)
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that really is the big difference stonezz. tories are going to cut taxes and fund things like the military, while the liberals are going to fund significant social spending projects like education. there are real differences in governing style, too, but policy-wise this is really a choice between tax cuts and fighting the deficit vs spending on social services.


on leadership -

i am obviously opposed to the conservative agenda, and i have put that forward here very clearly. that said, i don't know how anyone can see harper as a good leader. he's not transparent with spending and with decision-making, he's a bold-faced liar and he is a control freak. these things are out in the open now, and are exactly what he told everyone he wouldn't do. while ignatieff undoubtedly suffers in terms of leadership due to his seeimng desperation, harper significantly lacks in leadership due to his continued breeching of the trust of canadians. if you can't trust ignatieff for whatever reason, how can you possibly trust harper for reasons that are proven and established?
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:05 PM   #53 (permalink)
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I really dont know who to vote for, I dont trust Iganieff though. I would probably be more likely to vote Liberal if they had a better leader. What's the main differences between Liberal and Conservative other than Conservatives are American-like, and Liberals are more likely to support social services and things like that?
The Liberal party doesn't tend to undercut the civil service. They appear to be much more committed to tackling climate change. And they haven't normally been all giddy about throwing money at the military-industrial complex. The cost of those jets is going to be about double what Harper is telling us, according to people that know the ins and outs of defense deals in detail.

Concerning the coalition - that's the rewrite of the constitution I was speaking about. The rules are pretty simple. They are not as Harper states, designed to allow the party with the most seats to govern. The party or parties with a majority of seats can govern. And there is no such thing as a coalition in opposition. Coalitions come together in order to form the necessary majority needed to govern. For Harper to continuously misrepresent the constitution of our parliamentary system shows him to be either incredibly ignorant or insidiously mischievous, and neither scenario should be taken lightly.

One other note about the debate that hasn't been mentioned - the flag pin. I was drawn to it immediately and found it to be an intolerable signal that the US Republican political machine is in full operation in this election. Combine the flag pin with the notion that democratic debates are just a bunch a bickering that get in the way of operating the government "like a business" and you get the same situation that so many have settled for down south - nothing but empty symbolism for the greater majority, along with being sold the entirely false notion that all the taxbreaks going to the wealthy sliver of a minority will create jobs and cannot be stopped or reversed (in fact cuts will be needed in order to keep them in place). That's just too ugly for me to handle, even in light of the general irrelevance of our central government as a whole. Harper looks to be doing something to create relevance, and it would be extremely damaging to all but a few. Please give us a minority at least. I will welcome the so-called "bickering" over what would likely come with a majority in this guy's hands.
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:23 PM   #54 (permalink)
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the rhino party is not there, their promise to change the law of gravity is very interesting
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:23 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Oh god.
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:46 PM   #56 (permalink)
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that's pretty interesting, but that's a good point 'trane, i dont trust Ignatieff but Harper hasn't been transparent himself.

i'm leaning towards Liberal right now despite Ignatieff, doesnt take a genius to know social programs are more needed than jets and whatnot. Also high taxes i dont mind 'cause you cant have both, low taxes and good social sevices
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Old 04-13-2011, 02:49 PM   #57 (permalink)
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i've voted conservatives once before in my life and that was because d'eon was a doofus.
Nah.
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Old 04-13-2011, 03:07 PM   #58 (permalink)
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that's pretty interesting, but that's a good point 'trane, i dont trust Ignatieff but Harper hasn't been transparent himself.

i'm leaning towards Liberal right now despite Ignatieff, doesnt take a genius to know social programs are more needed than jets and whatnot. Also high taxes i dont mind 'cause you cant have both, low taxes and good social sevices
if you can't choose between either dbag at the federal level, make your choice based on your local representative. thts the way it should work anyways.
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Old 04-13-2011, 04:02 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I'm torn between Communist and Christian Heritage.
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Old 04-13-2011, 04:02 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I'm gonna start my own party.
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