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View Poll Results: Do you...
Believe in God and follow a particular religion 4 14.29%
Believe in God but choose NOT to follow a particular religion 7 25.00%
Not believe in God at all 17 60.71%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-31-2012, 11:15 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Just curious.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:18 AM   #2 (permalink)
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perhaps
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
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there should be a fourth option, absolute uncertainty
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
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there should be a fourth option, absolute uncertainty
Yep. Or just uncertainty. Not sure why it has to be absolute, or if it even can be absolute. Wouldn't that make it certain in some sense?
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:31 AM   #5 (permalink)
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should be an option where its half half, but yeah i believe.
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:55 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Yep. Or just uncertainty. Not sure why it has to be absolute, or if it even can be absolute. Wouldn't that make it certain in some sense?
trying to make a subtle joke LX
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:30 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I believe that there's a GOD but I follow a religion because of family tradition. I'm not sure whether Jesus is god, nor "allah", Abraham and etc. but I really believe there's a god -- the world is designed so perfectly: we need air to breathe, we wouldn't survive without bees, and all those stuff.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:27 AM   #8 (permalink)
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A few thoughts now that I'm a few Erdingers deep:

1) What states of belief are possible and what, exactly, do they map to? For example, is not believing something identical with believing that something is false? If I don't believe in god, does that mean I believe that the statement "god exists" is false, or is that a separate question? Ie. are there two statements: "god exists" and "god doesn't exist" for which one can have seemingly distinct beliefs? Is it possible to equally believe and disbelieve that a particular proposition is true?

2) I suspect it is appropriate to separate whether one believes in a particular proposition from the question of whether one is confident that the proposition is true. That is, one can believe in something without having any confidence in whether they are true or not. I think this approach better captures the full range of states of belief, and this is especially so in the case of religious or theistic beliefs.

3) We have to be careful when we talk of perfection; it is something quite distinct from adequacy or, in a crude sense, parts fitting together. Certainly we have the air to breath that we require (otherwise we wouldn't be alive and so couldn't comment on the fact that we don't have the air we require; it seems like a vacuous observation to me) but it is also easy to imagine how things could be improved further still (note that I've avoided debating what precisely perfection is, though I do take it for granted that something is not perfect if it can be improved upon). To take the example of the supply of oxygen necessary for human physiological functions, it seems quite plausible to me that an organism can be designed to take in their food via an orifice or tube that is not directly adjacent to the one in which we take in or oxygen, thus preventing the suffocation and choking that easily occurs when we're not careful while eating or drinking. In fact, many other organisms are not designed in a manner that seems so foolish. So is this really a matter of perfection, or does it look more like a kludge done with constraints already in place? I, of course, vote for the latter.

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Old 01-05-2013, 03:32 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ligeia View Post
A few thoughts now that I'm a few Erdingers deep:

1) What states of belief are possible and what, exactly, do they map to? For example, is not believing something identical with believing that something is false? If I don't believe in god, does that mean I believe that the statement "god exists" is false, or is that a separate question? Ie. are there two statements: "god exists" and "god doesn't exist" for which one can have seemingly distinct beliefs? Is it possible to equally believe and disbelieve that a particular proposition is true?

2) I suspect it is appropriate to separate whether one believes in a particular proposition from the question of whether one is confident that the proposition is true. That is, one can believe in something without having any confidence in whether they are true or not. I think this approach better captures the full range of states of belief, and this is especially so in the case of religious or theistic beliefs.

3) We have to be careful when we talk of perfection; it is something quite distinct from adequacy or, in a crude sense, parts fitting together. Certainly we have the air to breath that we require (otherwise we wouldn't be alive and so couldn't comment on the fact that we don't have the air we require; it seems like a vacuous observation to me) but it is also easy to imagine how things could be improved further still (note that I've avoided debating what precisely perfection is, though I do take it for granted that something is not perfect if it can be improved upon). To take the example of the supply of oxygen necessary for human physiological functions, it seems quite plausible to me that an organism can be designed to take in their food via an orifice or tube that is not directly adjacent to the one in which we take in or oxygen, thus preventing the suffocation and choking that easily occurs when we're not careful while eating or drinking. In fact, many other organisms are not designed in a manner that seems so foolish. So is this really a matter of perfection, or does it look more like a kludge done with constraints already in place? I, of course, vote for the latter.
a thought, despite the hour, with regards to 1 and 2...

-belief comes before truth at least as often as after it. people do not seek a coherent worldview, or even a consistent moral position, before 'knowing' what they believe to be true and arguing it vociferously. this is why i've always been interested in praxis over theory. it is possible to equally believe all sorts of contrary ideas because, outside of academia, people rarely tie the threads together. in the end questions of this sort become social and political rather than a matter of truth-seeking.

(noise ensues and power prevails)
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:39 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Frisbeetarianism...nuff said
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:33 PM   #11 (permalink)
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there should be a fourth option, absolute uncertainty
Agnostic = Statement of knowledge...don't know if a deity exists

Gnostic = Statement of knowledge... know for sure that a deity exists

Atheist = Statement of belief...Does not believe that a deity exists

Theist = Statement of belief...Believes that a deity exists

Knowledge is a subset of belief therefore you can both believe something and know something at the same time. In my case I classify myself as an Agnostic Atheist ....meaning I don't know if a god exists but I also don't believe one exists as there isn't enough evidence to support the existence of one in my opinion but I am also open to new evidence to change my mind if good evidence is presented in favor of the existence of a deity. I believe this position is the most intellectually honest position to take vs someone who is a Gnostic theist, someone who KNOWS that a deity exists therefore believes there is one.

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Old 01-04-2015, 10:58 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I believe that there's a GOD but I follow a religion because of family tradition. I'm not sure whether Jesus is god, nor "allah", Abraham and etc. but I really believe there's a god -- the world is designed so perfectly: we need air to breathe, we wouldn't survive without bees, and all those stuff.
The world isn't designed, by implying that statement you are obviously stating that there must be a designer.

There is no evidence for a designer, never in the history of human kind has there ever been evidence for a designer. The bible is NOT evidence for GOD and if that's all you need for evidence I would suggest your criteria for evidence is way to low! Human's will ADD human characteristics to the natural world to describe it, we have been doing this for millennial, it's called anthropomorphism. We automatically assume the natural world was designed by a humanoid presence...how arrogant can you get when the Universe is soooo astronomical large i.e. There is an estimated 100 billion galaxies in the Universe. Our Sun is just one of an estimated two-to-four hundred billion stars in our Milky Way galaxy. The sheer number of planets in the Universe is STUPID BIG!!! To think that we are the only planet in the Universe that contains life is just unfathomable. and even stranger yet some believe that GOD made this Universe something we can't even obverse fully but decided to put life on this little spec of dust and is for some reason really really concerned about our sexual behavior and that we don't eat shellfish! What the F$#$#^$&? Come on!

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Old 01-05-2015, 11:38 AM   #13 (permalink)
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The world isn't designed, by implying that statement you are obviously stating that there must be a designer.

There is no evidence for a designer, never in the history of human kind has there ever been evidence for a designer. The bible is NOT evidence for GOD and if that's all you need for evidence I would suggest your criteria for evidence is way to low! Human's will ADD human characteristics to the natural world to describe it, we have been doing this for millennial, it's called anthropomorphism. We automatically assume the natural world was designed by a humanoid presence...how arrogant can you get when the Universe is soooo astronomical large i.e. There is an estimated 100 billion galaxies in the Universe. Our Sun is just one of an estimated two-to-four hundred billion stars in our Milky Way galaxy. The sheer number of planets in the Universe is STUPID BIG!!! To think that we are the only planet in the Universe that contains life is just unfathomable. and even dumber yet some believe that GOD made this Universe something we can't even obverse fully but decided to put life on this little spec of dust and is for some reason really really concerned about our sexual behavior and that we don't eat shellfish! What the F$#$#^$&? Come on!
No need to bash, this thread was grave dug. These posts were made by users that were willing to open up. everyone's entitled to what they believe in
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Old 01-05-2015, 08:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
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For to long criticizing someones religion was considered taboo! To move forward as a society we have to be able to criticize bad ideas and religion is a bad idea! A 2000 year old bad idea that slows progress in the sciences and doesn't allow us to reach our full potential as a species on this planet. If people can't take the criticism maybe there is a reason for that. If the ideology was strong, based on good reason and logic then I digress. Of course anyone is entitled to what they believe in, after all it's a democracy, but that doesn't mean someones ideas are closed to criticism. Criticism is the hallmark of a democracy and is absolutely necessary to growth of that society. I am all for debate and criticism, Muzzling that criticism can only hurt the discussion. Some people will get their feelings hurt it's inevitable, are we not all big boys and girls here?

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Old 01-05-2015, 08:42 PM   #15 (permalink)
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For to long criticizing someones religion was considered taboo! To move forward as a society we have to be able to criticize bad ideas and religion is a bad idea! A 2000 year old bad idea that slows progress in the sciences and doesn't allow us to reach our full potential as a species on this planet. If people can't take the criticism maybe there is a reason for that. If the ideology was strong, based on good reason and logic then I digress. Of course anyone is entitled to what they believe in, after all it's a democracy, but that doesn't mean someones ideas are closed to criticism. Criticism is the hallmark of a democracy and is absolutely necessary to growth of that society. I am all for debate and criticism, Muzzling that criticism can only hurt the discussion. Some people will get their feelings hurt it's inevitable, are we not all big boys and girls here?
I believe anything that causes separation between people is bad, race, nationalities, gender, sexual orientation, religion. All these things are labels that are not needed, we humans need to get rid of everything that causes us to believe we are all not that same and we aren't one entity that should move together as one in peace and love.

On the topic of religion, I like learning of how the religion was conceived but I don't like how people can follow a religion and think they are doing good by following a set of rules laid out by other humans. Yes Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed and all other religious figures are just humans who have achieved enlightenment, something anyone can achieve. These humans should be looked up to as leaders who we should follow but not the religions random people created. I do believe in a deity that created universe, I don't believe everything that happened was just random either and a big bang happened out of no where. I believe this deity caused the big bang to happen.
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Old 01-05-2015, 10:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I can appreciate your response and it happens to be a modern Christian one that falls in line with what Pope Francis seems to be touting lately. Enlightened moderate Christians seem to be able to hold onto their religious ideology but at the same time embrace the overwhelming scientific body of evidence for the most part. The question I'd like to pose is why the aversion to randomness? It's the old causality argument...Everything needs to have a cause...Why does everything need to have a first cause? This argument about something coming from nothing is in the same vain. My argument to that is we have never seen a nothing therefore we don't have an example of it so maybe The Universe was always here just in a different form. We could also discuss the question about the multi verse which is also very plausible according to many high profile physicists like Steven Hawking, Steven Weinberg, Brian Greene, Michio Kaku and many others.At the risk of offence, I personally think the quick answer of GOD DID IT is just intellectually lazy, I'm sorry but that's just my honest opinion. I hope to stimulate some discussion here thanks man.
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Old 01-05-2015, 10:11 PM   #17 (permalink)
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If we didn't have this so called book called the "Bible" where would our morals come from? Religion has played a huge part in making our world the way it is today. Without a standard, a city falls. There has to be rules, and religion has had an influence on that. Yes there has been horrible stuff happen, which is disgusting, but it happened, and we learned from it.
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Old 01-05-2015, 11:27 PM   #18 (permalink)
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If we didn't have this so called book called the "Bible" where would our morals come from? Religion has played a huge part in making our world the way it is today. Without a standard, a city falls. There has to be rules, and religion has had an influence on that. Yes there has been horrible stuff happen, which is disgusting, but it happened, and we learned from it.
morals can also be developed through a secular lens logically, as they have been, through many philosophical works.
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Old 01-06-2015, 12:55 AM   #19 (permalink)
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If I was going to eat a bunch of shrooms and drop a bunch of acid, I might believe in god. Unfortunately I'm too sober.

I wish I did believe in a god, because then I could believe in ghosts.. And zombies. And santa claus.


Stef Curry might be god. Or a demi-god at the very least. I still don't trust him though. Fuck his under par at pebble beach.
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Old 01-06-2015, 01:10 AM   #20 (permalink)
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If we didn't have this so called book called the "Bible" where would our morals come from? Religion has played a huge part in making our world the way it is today. Without a standard, a city falls. There has to be rules, and religion has had an influence on that. Yes there has been horrible stuff happen, which is disgusting, but it happened, and we learned from it.
are you kidding me... morals wouldn't exist without the bible? Serious?
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