Protectionism? - Page 2
Old 01-30-2009, 02:03 PM   #21 (permalink)
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let's stop using communism in this thread. it's totally irrelevant.
I don't think that is irrelevant... Obama is no communist but what US government is doing is a form of communism... like it or not.

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anyone see barack's scolding of the big banks for giving out $18 billion is executive bonuses this year? loved it.
Who cares? It's just posturing... they still got to keep the money they payed themselves... now, if he forced them to return the money or he took the money away from them... now, that would be something... give me millions of dollars and scold me all you like... I would laughing while on the beach somewhere warm.

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and exxon mobil posted a record profit, beating their previous record. i guess they're not getting punished at the pumps!
That was little bit less then a year ago because of the record high gasoline prices... they're hurting now... but I say, let them.
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Old 01-30-2009, 02:06 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I think that companies that do X amount of business in a country should be forced to invest X amount of dollars in the same country, or at least employ X amount of works from said country, could just do it as a %. Dont know what you would call this tho, prob stupid
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Old 01-30-2009, 02:11 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I think that companies that do X amount of business in a country should be forced to invest X amount of dollars in the same country, or at least employ X amount of works from said country, could just do it as a %. Dont know what you would call this tho, prob stupid
That would make Canada broke... just think how much we sell in US and how much we invest there... scary.
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Old 01-30-2009, 02:24 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I worded it a bit wrong, a % of profits, not the overvalue of your company. Most companies i think would agree to this, as the American market is still the most lucrative, its better to invest a % then make no profits at all. Prob a very flawed plan, just a quick idea i had.
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Old 01-30-2009, 02:45 PM   #25 (permalink)
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what Obama is doing is he's trying to real in all of the private shennanigans that come with international trade. which I'm all for. it's really going to effect all of the private interests that benefit from the current economic model, but the more local one tends to get one's goods, then the more environmentally sustainable an economy becomes (we aren't meant to have bananas!!). not to mention more stable.
this isn't so much protectionism or isolationism as it is facing the reality that they've spread their economy to thin.
he sees that it isn't in the government's mandate to help make corporations and those who profit from such a lopsided system of international trade richer. i'm all for stopping international trade. if i really want bananas then i'll have to move to guatemala.
Why would you be for stopping international trade? It would be economic armageddon and a reversion to the middle ages.

I understand your point though but to think this won't have a direct impact on Canadian businesses and manufacturers is unture. In an effort to stabilize their economy they would seek to destabilize the economies of others. It makes no sense to me.

Right now, they need weather the storm. They fucked up with their banking system, their sub prime mortgages etc. Doing anything drastic will only further the situation.
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Old 01-30-2009, 03:21 PM   #26 (permalink)
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The french economy minister has said today that proteccionism is needed to be able to put more strict regulations of the international market. So I supose Obama is not alone.
Gordon Brown critizised this so its clear its far from being a consensus.
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Old 01-30-2009, 03:30 PM   #27 (permalink)
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The french economy minister has said today that proteccionism is needed to be able to put more strict regulations of the international market. So I supose Obama is not alone.
Gordon Brown critizised this so its clear its far from being a consensus.
It's one of those things that all politicians like to spew out... it means nothing but it's good for a headline or their rating increase... it's similar to 'fight against crime/poverty/illegal immigration/corruption/abuse or insert your own word' cry.
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Old 01-30-2009, 03:36 PM   #28 (permalink)
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It's one of those things that all politicians like to spew out... it means nothing but it's good for a headline or their rating increase... it's similar to 'fight against crime/poverty/illegal immigration/corruption/abuse or insert your own word' cry.
yeah, of course it is, specially comming from the french goverment of sarkozy.
Just wanted to point out its not only Obama saying it. Its populism, I doubt it will happend though.
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Old 01-30-2009, 03:43 PM   #29 (permalink)
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yeah, of course it is, specially comming from the french goverment of sarkozy.
Just wanted to point out its not only Obama saying it. Its populism, I doubt it will happend though.
Even when Obama was giving stern speeches about NAFTA and how it's not fair to US during his election campaign behind closed doors he was assuring Canadian government officials that it's just for 'show'...
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Old 01-30-2009, 04:28 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Why would you be for stopping international trade? It would be economic armageddon and a reversion to the middle ages.

I understand your point though but to think this won't have a direct impact on Canadian businesses and manufacturers is unture. In an effort to stabilize their economy they would seek to destabilize the economies of others. It makes no sense to me.

Right now, they need weather the storm. They fucked up with their banking system, their sub prime mortgages etc. Doing anything drastic will only further the situation.
why does stopping one thing necessarily mean disaster, and besides, hasn't the current system wreaked enough havoc already? are we not in the midst of one giant economic and ecological clusterfuck? something about reaping and sowing.

that viewpoint is more about capitulation rather than accepting the responsibility that comes with living and comsuming the way we do. it's humanistic and arrogant. sure there's a degree of intergenerational tyranny at work here, with much of our choices, or lack there of, for "safe" alternatives sacrificed by the greed and short sightedness of previous generations. but at some point, some representative of the system is going to have face the cold. it sucks, but saving our asses at the expense of other's asses is the gravest form of passing the buck.
i never said stopping international trade would result in rainbows. only that in its first instance its entirely unsustainable at a material level and eventually the proverbial chickens will come home to roost.
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Old 01-30-2009, 04:45 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Problem is that all these companies should go bankrupt and not be saved by the government... because they got so big they are being saved... in true capitalism this would never happen... old dinosaurs have to die in order for companies with new ideas to emerge... US government is doing the thing communist did... propping large, nonprofitable companies 'for the greater good'... they are forgetting market rules.

This way only small and medium companies will perish since there will be no money from the government for them... this will leave large ones in even bigger monopolies.

At the end does anyone expect any of these giants to give money back to us if and when they become profitable again?
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:40 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Problem is that all these companies should go bankrupt and not be saved by the government... because they got so big they are being saved... in true capitalism this would never happen... old dinosaurs have to die in order for companies with new ideas to emerge... US government is doing the thing communist did... propping large, nonprofitable companies 'for the greater good'... they are forgetting market rules.

This way only small and medium companies will perish since there will be no money from the government for them... this will leave large ones in even bigger monopolies.

At the end does anyone expect any of these giants to give money back to us if and when they become profitable again?
that's why I said this is communism, someone else agrees on this point.

Failed companies should go down the toilet. There used to be around 15-20 car companies in the mid 1900's, nobody bailed them out. Its stupid to bail out companies, in the 80's did the government bail out typewriter manufacturers just because the computer is making money.

The US government is screwed up, they have an $11 trillion debt and social security and medicare will be bankrupt on the near future and they're worth $50 trillion. The stimulus packages are really entitlements for constituents. Republicans that are against the bailout and voted nay will accept money from the bailout package, shouldn't they decline the money if they don't believe in the package
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:45 PM   #33 (permalink)
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that's why I said this is communism, someone else agrees on this point.

Failed companies should go down the toilet. There used to be around 15-20 car companies in the mid 1900's, nobody bailed them out. Its stupid to bail out companies, in the 80's did the government bail out typewriter manufacturers just because the computer is making money.

The US government is screwed up, they have an $11 trillion debt and social security and medicare will be bankrupt on the near future and they're worth $50 trillion. The stimulus packages are really entitlements for constituents. Republicans that are against the bailout and voted nay will accept money from the bailout package, shouldn't they decline the money if they don't believe in the package
Couldn't agree more. My dad says the same thing. Whats the point of bailing them out. There are more car companies in the world to provide people with cars. Also, I heard the car companies that are going bankrupt (GM, Ford) all pay there wokers so much money. If I owned a car company that was going bankrupt I would reduce the people's pay and if they argued that then I would fire them and hire new people that will be willing to work for a less amount of money. Are these companies getting bailed out because they are American based companies, who knows, but I don't like it one bit and everybody else is paying the price
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:56 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Couldn't agree more. My dad says the same thing. Whats the point of bailing them out. There are more car companies in the world to provide people with cars. Also, I heard the car companies that are going bankrupt (GM, Ford) all pay there wokers so much money. If I owned a car company that was going bankrupt I would reduce the people's pay and if they argued that then I would fire them and hire new people that will be willing to work for a less amount of money. Are these companies getting bailed out because they are American based companies, who knows, but I don't like it one bit and everybody else is paying the price
problem is that when Ford/GM/Chrysler fire an employee they get compensated for a years pay, so your basically paying for the work but nobody is working.

The bailout went to this specific item, they wanted to fire employees so the government gives the billion to pay fired employees severance packages. In the end the UAW gets their cash and enjoys their golf course.
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:58 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Well the problem is, the unions are VERY strong, and if the companies just fire them all and move all the labor to cheaper countries, ppl scream bloody murder either way.
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:59 PM   #36 (permalink)
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So the earlier you take them out of their job the earlier you'll have to stop paying them. Makes sense but I see what you are getting at, no company would want to do that. Also, the second part ou wrote would actually be the only reason I would give the auto companies the bailout. It makes sense if that's what you are going to spend your money doing. If they just want the money cause they are going bankrupt, the auto companies can go screw themsleves in the ass
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:13 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Here is a big problem, the number of dollars in circulation



get ready for high inflation
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:15 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Why is America doing this?? Do they not know any history?? Don't they know what happened to Germany after WW1??? Idiots and they tell us to learn history so we don't make those mistakes agiain
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:21 PM   #39 (permalink)
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so basically, what you guys are saying is that workers dont have any rights. Just fire them and screw them. Lovely.

And if you fire those millions of workers, who is going to consume?, and if you dont consume, you know what happends.

Last edited by Belsius; 01-30-2009 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:26 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Why is America doing this?? Do they not know any history?? Don't they know what happened to Germany after WW1??? Idiots and they tell us to learn history so we don't make those mistakes agiain
The Mesoamerican Long Count calendar forms the basis for a New Age belief, first forecast by José Argüelles, that a cataclysm will take place on or about December 21, 2012, a forecast that mainstream Mayanist scholars consider a misinterpretation, yet is commonly referenced in pop-culture media as the 2012 problem.

So they think the world is going to end and/or politicians want to get rich off of taxpayers backs. All politicians get kickbacks with stimulus packages, they also bailed out companies because CEO's give them a large portion of campaign contributions.
Plus, if you didn't know the whole subprime mortgage thing was started by the government forcing banks to give loans to poor people so they can buy houses . The government also gave money to banks and promised if the mortgages didn't work they would bail them out.
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