"our economy is not a political game" - Page 2
Old 03-24-2011, 11:30 PM   #21 (permalink)
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The others do too though...they all have a limited of time in the "sun". If the waited Jack, and Mike probably would be replaced.

Have a vote...the party with the lowest amount of votes, is dropped...have another vote, and repeat until there is a majority.

In 4 years..another round
i don't deny that the other parties want an election. frankly i do too. my issue was that it is being characterized as a socialist-separatist plot when it is actually a conservative propaganda campaign.
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:32 PM   #22 (permalink)
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i don't buy that at all. these are not incompetent people by any stretch benzo. they may be branded as such, but that is by no means true.
Oh come on, I was willing to admit Stockwell was a douche, but Iggy, is a joke even within his own party..


I think Chlamydia has a higher approval rating than IGGY right now.
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:34 PM   #23 (permalink)
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i don't deny that the other parties want an election. frankly i do too. my issue was that it is being characterized as a socialist-separatist plot when it is actually a conservative propaganda campaign.
No its a bunch of Ego's in a playpen with my money. The election was happening regardless of what was in the budget.

I am going to become a libertarian

*Benzo Shrugged*
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:38 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Oh come on, I was willing to admit Stockwell was a douche, but Iggy, is a joke even within his own party..


I think Chlamydia has a higher approval rating than IGGY right now.

that's largely because of the propaganda campaign.

-he's un-canadian, he's a snob, he caters to the elite, his background is dishonest - all of these things were advertised by the harper communications team before ignatieff was even vying for the liberal leadership. this is precisely what i was describing in my earlier post.

the fact is that he's a bright guy witha commitment to leading this country in the direction that he's put forward. disagreeing with that platform is one thing, but labeling him as some kind of unpatriotic buffoon is quite another.

you know me well enough to know i'm not even a liberal supporter. my issue isn't with who wins, it's with how the game is being played this time. i disagree with ligeia's earlier post that this is just the same thing all over again. it's simply not. this is a new era of laying claim to your opposition's brand before they get a voice in the media, and i find it troubling because it is completely drowning out real political discourse.
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Old 03-25-2011, 12:02 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I sacrificed clarity for brevity. The point was meant to convey that 5 years ago, the CPC was fighting the budget and the LPC was saying that economics != politics. I didn't intend to imply that there is the same amplitude of "framing" going on now as there was then; framing seems to take greater priority over substance with each passing year.

As a pseudo-elite, nothing is more galling than the declaration that elites are of no value. Although I don't take a whiggish view of history, there is no doubt that the work of intellectual elites has shaped the history of the world in profound ways (though not always for the better). Point being: an ability to take in more than your average TV filler should not disqualify one from politics.

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Old 03-25-2011, 01:28 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I sacrificed clarity for brevity. The point was meant to convey that 5 years ago, the CPC was fighting the budget and the LPC was saying that economics != politics. I didn't intend to imply that there is the same amplitude of "framing" going on now as there was then; framing seems to take greater priority over substance with each passing year.

As a pseudo-elite, nothing is more galling than the declaration that elites are of no value. Although I don't take a whiggish view of history, there is no doubt that the work of intellectual elites has shaped the history of the world in profound ways (though not always for the better). Point being: an ability to take in more than your average TV filler should not disqualify one from politics.
How dare you suggest that if this was the other way around, the same thing would have happened...HOW DARE YOU (insert sarcasm).

The conservatives are the devil, (notice I used the small "c" on purpose", in some vague ironic attempt to play both sides)

'Trane, my contempt of Iggy is not born out of ads by the PC's, I just struggle with the fact that is this was an NDP budget and the C's decided to defeat it, you would be complain about the the PC's not allowing the government to govern.

I am not a PC, Liberal or NDP....I want the government out of my fucking kitchen as much as possible irregardless of who they are, at the moment that forces me to vote to the right.
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Old 03-25-2011, 06:46 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I agree with Ligeia's point. Sadly power more and more lies within the PMO and the hands of corporate lobbyists. The situation is not as bad as in the US, the fact that it's headed in that direction, and is encouraged to do so by american advisors like Ralph Reed, is pretty disheartening.

And I can see how the right appears to be the only alternative for a libertarian, with how they refuse to attempt any kind of social engineering.
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:54 AM   #28 (permalink)
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a good article that helps to peer through the framing veneer:

Quote:
Whatever happened to fixed-election dates?
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Prime Minister Stephen Harper may blame opposition parties for toppling his government and forcing an election over what they call the Tories’ “unprecedented … contempt of Parliament.” But he’s the same guy who was so desirous of snaring the power that comes from commanding a majority of seats, he called an election on his own in 2008, without a confidence vote in sight.

He did that notwithstanding legislation brought in by his very self that set fixed, four-year terms. It’s a good policy that enhances democracy by removing election timing from the whims of prime ministers. Yet Mr. Harper simply could not resist the lure of riding winds he thought were to his political advantage in 2008.

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Canada has had three minority governments since 2004 – one Liberal and two Conservative – and the country seems to have survived. In fact, it was a concerted opposition gang-up that forced the Tories to unleash their comprehensive stimulus package during the recession that they have been taking credit for ever since. Politics.

Whatever happened to fixed-election dates? - The Globe and Mail
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:19 AM   #29 (permalink)
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"...and the country seems to have survived...."

Mere survival seems to have become the benchmark. How about "thriving" for once?
No more minority governments. Let's pick a direction and run with it, Canada.

Problem is there's no one fit to lead, no one who inspires anybody. Boring opportunists on all sides.
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:57 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I think there's plenty of good people fit to lead. Harper might very well be fit to lead. Just show me a legitimate agenda that I can get behind. The only real alternative in that sense is the Green party. Nobody else has anything but a bunch of poll-tested favors to hand out.

The Republicans down south look to be zeroing in on the idea of "American Exceptionalism". This is an idea first presented by de Tocqueville in terms of them merely standing apart as something different and new. But the idea took on many other meanings, including the implication that imperialist expansion was morally just, and the puritanical thrust of seeing themselves as chosen by God to carry out some predestined nonsense. The Republicans are making a big connection between patriotism and godliness, while hanging on to the worn-out idea of the world needing the American Empire. It covers all the bases. Object to any part of the proposition and you might as well be cast into hell, or perhaps France.

And now we see the "Harper Government" proposing a sort of Canadian Exceptionalism. The picture presented reminds me of how employees of Walmart are asked to feel great about working for such a tremendous company, even though they are treated like sheep and paid about as well. They are part of something special, which makes them special, and what more could they ask for. It's a great trick of circular reasoning. It is not an agenda however. More and more the true agenda appears to be playing outside of democratic institutions entirely. It's all about increasing the wealth of the wealthiest one percent. If you're looking for anything else then your going to get all the fun games and BS.

The good news is that it is the provinces and civic governments that are equipped to carry out any kind of agenda on the part of the people as a whole. That is why if feel that proportional representation could be such a boon to the system. The Party system as it stands offers so little. With stronger local representatives the good stuff that does happen at the lower levels of government can be reinforced. Future needs can be addressed from the ground up. Sure there will still be messiness, propaganda and gamesmanship - just look at Rob Ford. But it wouldn't likely be self-sustaining as it appears to be with the party system in place in Ottawa.
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:16 PM   #31 (permalink)
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The others do too though...they all have a limited of time in the "sun". If the waited Jack, and Mike probably would be replaced.

Have a vote...the party with the lowest amount of votes, is dropped...have another vote, and repeat until there is a majority.

In 4 years..another round
problem with this system is the other parties of canada wont be recognized in Canada. the HofC represents all of canada and with this, it would not represent the entire canadian population's first preference
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:04 PM   #32 (permalink)
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"...and the country seems to have survived...."

Mere survival seems to have become the benchmark. How about "thriving" for once?
No more minority governments. Let's pick a direction and run with it, Canada.

Problem is there's no one fit to lead, no one who inspires anybody. Boring opportunists on all sides.
With all due respect my friend. At a time when an election is imminent, all politicians become 'oppourtunist' in order to gain power. There's nothing wrong with that desire.

We, as citizens, carry the duty to ask tough questions and giving an informed vote.
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:24 PM   #33 (permalink)
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With all due respect my friend. At a time when an election is imminent, all politicians become 'oppourtunist' in order to gain power. There's nothing wrong with that desire.

We, as citizens, carry the duty to ask tough questions and giving an informed vote.
+1000000, its hard to believe the number of canadians that believe the crap the tories dish out annually
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Old 03-26-2011, 01:57 AM   #34 (permalink)
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+1000000, its hard to believe the number of canadians that believe the crap the tories dish out annually
See ...everyone was using their brain until this. The last few post had nothing to do with any kind of partisan politics.

Please explain to me the "crap" the tories dish out.

Fact...and this is a FACT. The Canadian economy thrived over the last few years......FACT.....no debating it.

I will concede the reasons as to why it had thrived may be somewhat grey.

Bottom line....the last 4 years have been (all things considered) good for our country,,

PC, LIB, NDP, Green...just get the fuck out of my wallet and home.
LX...i regret bringing up the term "libertarian"..I prefer not to be classified...
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Old 03-26-2011, 01:58 AM   #35 (permalink)
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+1000000, its hard to believe the number of canadians that believe the crap the tories dish out annually
God this post pisses me off......
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:16 AM   #36 (permalink)
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God this post pisses me off......
i was merely referring to the smear ad campaigns. yes the canadian economy has gotten stronger over the past few years, i am not bashing the conservatives for what they have provided and im sorry if thats how it may have seemed. all im saying is that i dont like that the tories are leading away from using good things they have done and towards bashing other parties, primarily the liberals. i didnt like it when they had a pidgeon $hit on stephane dion, i dont like it when they call ignatieff uncanadian and too "high in society" to be able to connect with the people. he is turning politics into attack, rather than provide and support.
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:51 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Thankfully I have enjoyed this news in the friendly confines of Calgary and Alberta.
Sidenote (minus political rant)...

but are you from Alberta Benzo? Or at least living here, or were you just on vacation or something?
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Old 03-26-2011, 07:55 AM   #38 (permalink)
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The economy thrived? Fuck did I miss out. I haven't been able to save fuck all. Costs are going through the roof. Am I nuts in thinking a whole bunch of people struggled to make ends meet besides myself? I just feel lucky in that I carry no debt whatsoever. If I had any I'd have an ulcer about now.

I recognize that the economy as a whole could have been much worse. We're lucky to have so many commodities that the market is allowing people to manipulate, I suppose. The fact is that the very rich are getting much much richer, and the rest are not earning as much relative to the past, and especially relative to costs. Hey here's an idea - give the oil industry a billion. They need it. They earned it. They've done so much to improve our image internationally.

And I'm afraid pzabby isn't so far off base. The Harper Government makes lying into an artform. It's habitual, and it's becoming a little too hard to bear. Even their favorite line about "the coalition" harkens back to the lie about the minority parties trying to "steal" the election. That's just a fucking lie. That is the way our parliamentary system works. There was no stealing to be done, just more misinforming, and undermining of our democratic process. And now to hear the dude talk about how nobody wants an election and how irresponsible it is, while he spent 30+million on unrestricted election ads, 26 million of which came out of our pockets so we could feel so fucking good about this economy that offers so little in the longterm. Lie after lie after lie. Nothing blatant. Mostly just misinformation and half truths. I probably shouldn't even say it's a bunch of lies. Let's just go with crap.
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Old 03-26-2011, 02:47 PM   #39 (permalink)
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based on the speeches this morning, i'm thinking this election's gonna get grimy
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Old 03-26-2011, 04:07 PM   #40 (permalink)
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harper flat out lied to the canadian public this morning about the legitimacy of structuring government. electioneering and smearing is one thing, but deliberately misinforming the public about what is constitutionally legitimate is just a slap in the face to our collective intelligence. the guy is straight up lying to people from a position of authority.
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