Obamamania - Page 3
Old 01-20-2009, 12:45 PM   #41 (permalink)
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sj's point is a good one b. you want us to post youtubes of loonies on the far right? even the fiscal far right? there are boneheads in every camp.

if all this does is affirm that the vast majority of americans want to move away from the direction of the bush years, and give the direction some impetus, then the us has taken the most crucial step possible. a step that could of and should have been made years ago. it will take lots of time, but someone has to get the ball rolling. obama has done juyst that.
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:46 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I bet, it must be crazy.

I wonder if that type of widespread availibility to the event will have any type of global effect on attitude or on a shift of optimism.
Ya know...I now trust Obama and his stim plan, with these overages, I'm going to be able to buy a new car.
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:46 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Just a snapshot, I don't think the majority, of Americans think that way, it speaks to the Placebo that is Obama though.
I'm sorry, and you're qualified to write the guy off before he's had an hour of service why??

A placebo?

Come on man, that seems a little too easy to say, and more than a little unfair. He may have an overwhelming effect on citizens, making them feel different today than they did yesterday, and nothing has really changed, but in a larger scope, hasn't it? Just the simple fact that he hs been able to do that speaks to the fact that he isn't a placebo, more, he's already changing public optimism, which, any politician will tell you, is absolutely invaluable if you want to affect change.

Sounds like a little sour grapes on your end Benzo. Had Your guy won, what would the lable be you put on him?
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:47 PM   #44 (permalink)
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sj's point is a good one b. you want us to post youtubes of loonies on the far right? even the fiscal far right? there are boneheads in every camp.

if all this does is affirm that the vast majority of americans want to move away from the direction of the bush years, and give the direction some impetus, then the us has taken the most crucial step possible. a step that could of and should have been made years ago. it will take lots of time, but someone has to get the ball rolling. obama has done juyst that.
I agreed with you guys,

side note: I love the clip of that ranting lady about how Obama is an Arab,,,it cracks me up.

Never has a president been elected more on personality than platform though, I just hope he surrounds himself with the right people and keeps an eye on Putin.
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:50 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I'm sorry, and you're qualified to write the guy off before he's had an hour of service why??

A placebo?

Come on man, that seems a little too easy to say, and more than a little unfair. He may have an overwhelming effect on citizens, making them feel different today than they did yesterday, and nothing has really changed, but in a larger scope, hasn't it? Just the simple fact that he hs been able to do that speaks to the fact that he isn't a placebo, more, he's already changing public optimism, which, any politician will tell you, is absolutely invaluable if you want to affect change.

Sounds like a little sour grapes on your end Benzo. Had Your guy won, what would the lable be you put on him?

Dude, this is exactly what I'm talking about, I state that I have concerns, and you are all over me with generalizations, Your right he is an hour in, hardly time to label him savior. Is he beyond critizism?

Your exactly what I'm talking about, I consider myself a moderate, this guy has galvanized people like never before, but there will have to be some pay-off. I wish him the best of luck, but I will not stand by and accept him when he has proven nothing.
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:53 PM   #46 (permalink)
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i have a question benzo, and maybe this belongs in another thread...

you described yourself as a fiscal conservative and a social liberal, which is the same label that good friend off mine from calgary used to describe himself. i am, and always have been, confused by this. theoretically it makes a ton of sense. you have no disagreement from me that things like lower taxes, balanced budgets, free market capitalism and effective small buisness rules are key to our success and are lofty and important goals. where i find the confusion is in praxis. when all are not possible (as is usually the case) which takes precedence? are balanced budgets more important than social programs? is free market capitalism to be tempered by basic labour standards? if you sit yourself on the fiscal conservative side of these questions, you have to give up the social liberal position, no? maybe i am oversimplifying things.

i think this is an important discussion. i've always felt that the label you use is a fence sitting position in good times, but is untenable in bad economic times. how do you go about reconciling that?

(i'm about to go into an all-afternoon meeting, but will catch up with this conversation after work and before my band rehearsal).
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:55 PM   #47 (permalink)
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im not all over you, I love you, you're my friend.



He is beyond criticism, and using the same logic, beyond praise. I think were on the same page.

I just get suspicious is all.

I hope it all works out, I'll leave i there. I'm a cynic by nature.
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Old 01-20-2009, 01:20 PM   #48 (permalink)
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i have a question benzo, and maybe this belongs in another thread...

you described yourself as a fiscal conservative and a social liberal, which is the same label that good friend off mine from calgary used to describe himself. i am, and always have been, confused by this. theoretically it makes a ton of sense. you have no disagreement from me that things like lower taxes, balanced budgets, free market capitalism and effective small buisness rules are key to our success and are lofty and important goals. where i find the confusion is in praxis. when all are not possible (as is usually the case) which takes precedence? are balanced budgets more important than social programs? is free market capitalism to be tempered by basic labour standards? if you sit yourself on the fiscal conservative side of these questions, you have to give up the social liberal position, no? maybe i am oversimplifying things.

i think this is an important discussion. i've always felt that the label you use is a fence sitting position in good times, but is untenable in bad economic times. how do you go about reconciling that?

(i'm about to go into an all-afternoon meeting, but will catch up with this conversation after work and before my band rehearsal).
Pm sent.
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Old 01-20-2009, 01:21 PM   #49 (permalink)
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pussies.
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Old 01-20-2009, 01:22 PM   #50 (permalink)
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ps. about fighting in Hockey Benzo....pussy!
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Old 01-20-2009, 01:24 PM   #51 (permalink)
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ps. about fighting in Hockey Benzo....pussy!
dinosaur....


..
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Old 01-20-2009, 01:36 PM   #52 (permalink)
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you didnt even read my response you cunt.

shame on you!
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:03 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Dinosaurs and pussies...

What a patchwork quilt of people we have here.
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:10 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Not a straight up hard core conservative at all, I am a fiscal conservative, but a social liberal.
me too. We need a fiscal conservative/social liberal party
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:19 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Enough cannot be said for the mere recognition of human rights, observing the constitution, and living within their means. Of course it's a tall order to put everything into practice, but after decades of cynical uses of power for the sake of securing power, of disregarding human rights and the constitution, and tossing around money as if citizens were nothing but whores, I'm extremely excited about the mere possibility of turning all of that around.

The shit I've seen my entire adult life, where I was defined almost wholly as a consumer and little else, left me feeling very little hope for the future. Now I'm beginning to get a sense of what american values are actually about, as defined historically and never fully lived up to, and the renewed attempt to live up to them is enough for me to recognize that this guy has the stuff of greatness.
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:20 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Holder and Panetta imo are good choices.

As for the bolded portion, how does keeping GITMO protect the country? I'm really, really curious because in my opinion it does nothing but promote the notion of "an eye for an eye".
GITMO will be closed but it will take a long time (1-2 yrs.) because no one wants to take responsibility for the prisoners. If they are dispersed across the U.S. to different prisons i wouldn't be surprised if some of them got killed. I think Obama will relocate the GITMO prisoners to another one in Arizona or Cali. BTW the treatment in GITMO is fine they get free health care and there is an international red cross building in the compound.

Holder is stupid because he withheld the laptops with info about the 9/11 attacks a couple days before it happened. Panetta is a pussy because he wants to use the Army Field Manual to interrogate suspects which means you put them in a nicely lit, air conditioned room with free refills of OJ and a lazy boy chair. What a way to get interrogation. But I suspect Obama to be tough because if something happens he's in deep shit because he put in left leaning people, he's to smart to let something happen on his watch.
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:22 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Balck, white, big whoop, I think everyone will see, that once the fairy dust blows away, and it's time to get to work, that the US is still mired in debt, has a collapsing economy, and is still involved in a Myriad of useless conflicts world wide that won't be easy to just back out of.

You know the whole Black President thing is nice, and the symbol it provides for racial equality is nice too, but to be honest, Obama is the whitest balckj guy I have ever seen, and Chris fucking Rock could have run against McCain after the bUsh debacle and won. Tlking the big talk and shooting fish in a barrel is one thing, walking the walk will be the part that impresses me.

I'm 100% in support of the guy, but I think the hangover from the Bush administration is gonna be massive, as North American we need to be positive and we ned to look forward, but lets not get ahead of ourselves, the next few years are going to be hell.

Not to get nit-picky but that's always been a pet-peeve of mine....

I mean did people expect him to show up to his inauguration in a white suit with shades, a cane, a platinum Rolex and 2K diamond stud earrings?

He's a well-spoken, educated person. So is Colin Powell. So is Condoleeza Rice. Just because they don't run around flashing gang signs and speaking in ebonics doesn't make them "white".

Bah!

To Benzo: Why don't you give the guy a CHANCE before you condemn him? Jeez... right now he seems to be giving the USA (and the rest of the world) some much needed HOPE. And after the lack of faith that everyone seemed to have in the last administration I think that it's a good thing.

There's no doubt that Obama is being held up to expectations that he's not going to be able to come close to achieving... but I honestly think that he'll have a decent chance to become the most popular and respected prez since Clinton as long as he surrounds himself with knowledgeable people. He has the personality to pull it off.

I agree that the media frenzy around this inauguration is unparallelled... but really... is it so surprising given the role of minorities in America just 60 years ago? It's a pretty big day given America's history.
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:30 PM   #58 (permalink)
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me too. We need a fiscal conservative/social liberal party
I could live with that myself. However with respect to their approach to power, conservatives have generally spent wildly, created massive debt, and turned to social conservative fear-mongering and hatred to win approval. Chretien's liberals were very much defined as fc/sl I would say. The trouble is that they really had no relevence in a de-centralized country, and without much of an agenda it just became about personalities and power for power's sake.

A bigger step would be to move beyond the dogma inherent in the conservative and liberal labels themselves, toward a simple pragmatic approach that achieves shared values without needing to rely on endless spin and echo chambers. That of course would enfranchise you and I, and take back a good chunk of power from the corporate bloodsuckers that feed off of us through the use of political theatre.
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:31 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Not to get nit-picky but that's always been a pet-peeve of mine....

I mean did people expect him to show up to his inauguration in a white suit with shades, a cane, a platinum Rolex and 2K diamond stud earrings?

He's a well-spoken, educated person. So is Colin Powell. So is Condoleeza Rice. Just because they don't run around flashing gang signs and speaking in ebonics doesn't make them "white".

Bah!



i will never understand the term 'whitest black guy'.
if a black man is educated and can speak well, he's a white-black guy?
its pretty horrible if you think about it.
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Old 01-20-2009, 03:24 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I mean did people expect him to show up to his inauguration in a white suit with shades, a cane, a platinum Rolex and 2K diamond stud earrings?

.
Um..

1. Yes. Yes I did.

2. I was gonna leave you out, but seeing as I put you somewhere in between Obama and Rice, you leave me no choice.....




I kid. A pasty, well spoken Hockey playing Black dude... what was I thinking.

No really,
I guess that was poorly said, My bad, apologies. I can see what you're saying, I guess I'd be a bit peeved too. Sorry TRAP
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