Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Old 05-19-2011, 11:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Captain Ding Dong
 
Aar_Canada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St.Catharines
Posts: 4,924
Representing:
Default Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders

Quote:
Washington (CNN) -- President Barack Obama on Thursday made official the long-held but rarely stated U.S. support for a future Palestinian state based on borders that existed before the 1967 Middle East war.

In the past, the United States has unofficially backed a two-state solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict based on the borders in place prior to the war 44 years ago in which Israel seized the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights and Sinai Peninsula.

In a major speech Thursday, Obama became the first president to formally endorse the policy, but he also acknowledged the need for modifications through the negotiating process due to conditions on the ground.

"The United States believes that negotiations should result in two states, with permanent Palestinian borders with Israel, Jordan, and Egypt, and permanent Israeli borders with Palestine," Obama said in the concluding section of his 45-minute address that looked at political and social change sweeping across the Middle East and North Africa.

"We believe the borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states," Obama continued.

Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders - CNN.com
Aar_Canada is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2011, 02:28 AM   #2 (permalink)
in a battle for Eeyore's soul! Save him! For the dark side hath cookies!

Member
 
bladeofBG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 429
Representing:
Raptors

This declaration by Obama is so ridiculous that he can't even justify it in superficial terms; unless of course he's banking on young people (who don't have a poli-sci background or are friends w/such people) voting him back into office, who are unaware that the 1967 war is one of Israel's greatest victories; they were surrounded by all sides from multiple countries that were ready to obliterate them, yet they bested each of them, all by themselves. And that by a significant margin. In short, Israel all by themselves kicked all their collective enemies asses, in juss 6 days.

He's basically telling Israel to surrender land to Hamas, a terrorist group that currently holds the balance of power in Palestine, and refuses to acknowledge Israel's right to exist.

As if that's not enough to show how utterly idiotic (and desperate) Obama truly is, he's declaring his ridiculous statement in the same timeframe of Israel's eastern neighbour Syria going through major trouble, Israel's southern neighbour Egypt being on the road back to democracy, and during a time where Israeli-Palestine relations are 'tamer' right now (for lack of a better word).

W/all that in mind (and the fact that it's an idiotic statement coming from someone that no one in international politics, US Congress, or US business trusts at all), no one has anything of substance to gain by listening to his 'declaration.' This then puts into motion (and would even it he had legitimate claims, given who he is as a person) the question: What does Obama have to gain by declaring what he has, in the timeframe he has done it?

What I gather is:

-He's an unpopular president who doesn't have any of the momentum from his '07-08 campaign (which was only as successful as it was b/c Dubya was that bad, and Sen. McCain came off as a Dubya redux), who while knowing his declaration isn't right on any level, is banking on young voter's ignorance of the situation (and thus not have to seek to justify his claim w/substance to them), and thus declare it in the same timeframe as Osama Bin Laden dying under his rule, and use the momentum thereof to keep up the appearance that he's so peace-loving as per his Nobel peace prize in '09.

-Getting ahead in American politics all too often boils down to who collects the most money during campaign time. And if his personal financial data being released on CNN earlier this week + him declaring intentions for a 2nd term earlier that juss about any president in recent memory is any indication, Obama is seriously lacking in where he thought he'd be already. Add to that is the fact that most businesses (good, evil and neutral) in America & Canada know that he'll backstab anyone and then act to the camera that 'it's all good' by pretending to be the bigger man (the fact that the one time he did the opposite, in recently publicly clowning Trump, is a bridge he's thoroughly burned; say what you want about Trump, but he's got MANY business contacts who listen and listen well to him...and there's evidence Trump was in the right of what he sought, as the birth certificate shown in light of his quest was watermarked as per Adobe Photoshop), and his prospectus doesn't have a good prognosis at all in efforts to be re-elected......

.....So I reckon he hopes his fucked up declaration does 2 things (assuming I and many others who've studied 9/11/01 are right, that it was full out an inside job). One is that b/c he knows he's strained relations w/the Middle East's oil elite by ordering Osama's death (who needed Osama alive to continue to have substance to jack up oil prices), and thus he's declaring a very dangerous thing that could potentially destabilize Israeli-Palestinian relations further, in an effort to show good faith that he still seeks their wealth, and thus they should trust him enough to donate funds to him....

....Two is to say to domestic businesses whom he thinks he can still influence, that while what he juss declared is hella dumb, he could try to pretend that his heart is in the right place for world peace, and thus he's the right candidate to pay coin to.

-In addition to all that, the Military Industrial Complex makes their most coin in war time. W/Osama's death, hope to eventually end the conflicts in Afganistan and Iraq are at all-time highs (tempered as they are). But w/Obama's foolish statement having the potential to destabilize Israeli-Palestian relations further, he can say that he's trying to appease all the big businesses that support war (and before anyone declares this as too off the wall, please do research on Operation Northwoods; America and other countries do not hesitate to kill their own, be they civilians or soldiers, when the businesses behind war have much to gain - 9/11/01 is a perfect example, once you've thoroughly studied it).

I feel I've declared the true motive behind that vile motherfucker's declaration. And if no one agrees w/that, then please try to defend the rationale of declaring what he has here, especially in the time frame of doing so. This from a fuckin Harvard graduate. More like crackhead huckster tryna milk his wave for what it's worth. I can't think of anything he can say this Tuesday that masks the lack of wisdom of what he's fuckin declared.

Last edited by bladeofBG; 05-21-2011 at 02:52 AM.
bladeofBG is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2011, 03:07 AM   #3 (permalink)
the gat'll killya quicker, when I'm drunk off the liquor

The Mara sisters are hot!
 
Bill Haverchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,272
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofBG View Post
.So I reckon he hopes his fucked up declaration does 2 things (assuming I and many others who've studied 9/11/01 are right, that it was full out an inside job).
You're a clown.

Quote:
please do research on Operation Northwoods;
I have. The proposal was denied.


Quote:
America and other countries do not hesitate to kill their own, be they civilians or soldiers, when the businesses behind war have much to gain - 9/11/01 is a perfect example, once you've thoroughly studied it).
re: 9/11

You're a clown.

Quote:
I feel I've declared the true motive behind that vile motherfucker's declaration.
You're a clown.

Last edited by Bill Haverchuck; 05-21-2011 at 03:11 AM.
Bill Haverchuck is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2011, 03:34 AM   #4 (permalink)
in a battle for Eeyore's soul! Save him! For the dark side hath cookies!

Member
 
bladeofBG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 429
Representing:
Default

^ You again? Alright...

The fact that Operation Northwoods was even being discussed is what I was referring to.

Still think Osama masterminded 9/11/01? Have you researched this as well and found a suitable conclusion where you can call me a clown?

Anyways, go fuck yourself. But before you do, try educating yourself, clown. Here's some help in doing so.
bladeofBG is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2011, 09:34 AM   #5 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,698
Representing:
Default

you're going to drop loose change on us like it's research? give me a break.
'trane is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2011, 12:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Superjudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,592
Representing:
Default

I like Obama.
Superjudge is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2011, 02:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
...

Resident Mavs Fan
 
10gizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,219
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
you're going to drop loose change on us like it's research? give me a break.
LOL.

That's what I thought when I saw it too...
10gizzle is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2011, 02:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 76,144
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superjudge View Post
I like Obama.
Me too
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2011, 05:26 PM   #9 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Scully's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 872
Representing:
Default

Obama is trying to play hard ball with a state the has reneged and balked on every attempt to create an equatable situation. I think you could argue for the own benefit, with the vast majority of the surrounding countries (attempting) establishing themselves as democratic there is no government system forcing the peace. Syria and Egypt have for long time reaped rewards for standing along Israel when their populations may in fact lean quite strongly toward supporting Palestine. With out those strong leaders keeping their populations in check borders maybe hard to contain. Like we saw last week with Syrians crossing into Israel, for the first time in decades. Israel is the weakest its been in years, with moral standing for occupation dwindling. Netanyhue is nationalist who allows his pride and vain self interest to stand in the way of the peace process. Obama is just setting the Price high so as negotiations proceed they don't stray to far. Applaud Obama for this strong talk. BY the way Reagen was the first one to propose the return to the 67 boarders, its not not a new concept. Also 6 days war wasen't some grand victory, the surprise attacked those countries, destroying their Air forces while they were on the ground before an official declaration of war was given.
Scully is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 01:54 AM   #10 (permalink)
in a battle for Eeyore's soul! Save him! For the dark side hath cookies!

Member
 
bladeofBG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 429
Representing:
Raptors

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
you're going to drop loose change on us like it's research? give me a break.
Care to contend w/points the research done within it? Care to elaborate on your defense of the official story/9-11 Commission?

Or if that's too much of a thread derailment or if you deem is too much to ask of you, then we can always keep the thread on track and you can begin again by backing up or contesting the logic behind Obama saying what he did against Israel, as I requested of those who disagree w/my views here, seeing you were content to disrespect my response to yet another arrogant poster here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scully View Post
Obama is trying to play hard ball with a state the has reneged and balked on every attempt to create an equatable situation. I think you could argue for the own benefit, with the vast majority of the surrounding countries (attempting) establishing themselves as democratic there is no government system forcing the peace. Syria and Egypt have for long time reaped rewards for standing along Israel when their populations may in fact lean quite strongly toward supporting Palestine. With out those strong leaders keeping their populations in check borders maybe hard to contain. Like we saw last week with Syrians crossing into Israel, for the first time in decades. Israel is the weakest its been in years, with moral standing for occupation dwindling. Netanyhue is nationalist who allows his pride and vain self interest to stand in the way of the peace process. Obama is just setting the Price high so as negotiations proceed they don't stray to far. Applaud Obama for this strong talk. BY the way Reagen was the first one to propose the return to the 67 boarders, its not not a new concept. Also 6 days war wasen't some grand victory, the surprise attacked those countries, destroying their Air forces while they were on the ground before an official declaration of war was given.
Your post has made me look at the situation from broader angles, but I must maintain a few things.

And those things are that how is Israel supposed to attempt to create an equatable situation when the opposition, Hamas, doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist? I understand what you wrote about Syria & Egypt, but how does what Obama say 'tame' the potential fires in that situation (b/c from my POV, what he said looks like it can inflame the situation)?

And who appointed Obama to be the referee so as negotiations (between Israel & Palestine) don't stray far? I guess it's arguable that b/c USA has historically had a presence in the situation that it was right for Obama as president to do so, but the political climate is completely different from previous presidents, as the Middle Eastern countries are seeing for themselves that they're getting further to democracy w/o America helping them get democracy juss fine (stated more eloquently than I can write in this link here: Obama aims for the right side of history - CNN.com ...not that I agree w/the entire piece as I believe its wise to reserve judgement for now regarding revising the '67 boarders), and Obama doesn't command nearly the respect -both in international politics & Congress, even within the Dems- that previous presidents had (and hence my words that all he is saying and doing is for to collect money for the 2012 election).

I haven't researched Reagan opening talks regarding the '67 boarders, but I'll take your word for it. I'm sure presidents from '67 till 2000 have done what they could to try to ease the tension between Israel-Palestine. And I must disagree w/your assessment of the 6-day war. I don't believe an outright declaration was needed for Israel to react as it's not too often where multiple surrounding countries all line up at the same time to destroy one country (hence the war declaration was implied). Especially since the leaders of those lands for centuries didn't recognize Israel's right to exist and had shown time again how angry they were at Israel becoming a nation again in 1948.

Thank you for saying things politely & seeking to broaden my views on the subject. I still feel justified in claiming the things I have, but I'm glad to have read your post and thus now have more tools to help me think more effectively upon the subject.

Last edited by bladeofBG; 05-22-2011 at 01:57 AM.
bladeofBG is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2011, 09:29 AM   #11 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,698
Representing:
Default

if you need me to tell you what's wrong with loose change then you clearly haven't done your research. it's even easier to find than the video itself.
'trane is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2011, 01:58 AM   #12 (permalink)
in a battle for Eeyore's soul! Save him! For the dark side hath cookies!

Member
 
bladeofBG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 429
Representing:
Raptors

^

When I referred to Operation Northwoods, it was to solidify my point that the American gov't wouldn't hesitate to kill their own people; this was the same thing Loose Change was alluding to when they mentioned it. The fact that JFK was murdered some time after killing Op. Northwoods (and former pres. Eisenhower, who b4 becoming president was a military general serving under Vannevar Bush investigating Roswell, did America the greatest favor ever in warning of the Military Industrial Complex juss before JFK took office) and popular journalist Hunter S. Thompson was killed when he was the 1st person to openly declare his disdain for 9/11's official story, reinforce this belief to myself; unless of course you believe Hunter really killed himself despite having a solid family life and was paid lots of money for writing whatever he wanted.

The people criticising Loose Change 2nd Edition don't:


-sufficiently explain how jet fuel knocked down the two towers (ask any right thinking chemist: it's impossible...at least those who aren't on the take or been effectively intimidated don't suscribe to that theory - even the law of physics state that the buildings would've had to have been directly hit at their foundations to fall at all, failing a controlled demolition of course)

-sufficiently contend the surviving firefighters hearing timed explosions (and is on physical record via their recorded communications), which have proven to be exactly like that of controlled demolitions

-explain the lack of federal investigation regarding all the evidence of insider trading of airline & other stocks that was recovered in data recovery operations (indications that people knew something was coming); this while knowing a fundamental rule when investigating white collar crime (as the Twin Towers were primarily financial buildings) is to follow a 'paper trail,' be it hard copy or electronic

-effectively say anything vs. Loose Change's view on the collapse of Building 7 @ 5:21pm that day, which housed Guliani's personal bunker, and data regarding the Enron case (which was the biggest news in the days leading up to 9/11/01)

And that's all juss the tip of the iceberg off the top of my head. There are also other factors which 9/11 Loose Change 2nd Edition didn't cover, that further contend against the official story that the gov't provided. And then there's factors that should arouse everyone's suspicions, such as how the Republicans spent more than 10x the money in trying to impeach Clinton than they did on the 9/11 Commission's research; and the incredibly suspicious death of Bryan C. Jack, who was the best accountant the Pentagon had, one who was skilled enough to be able to find the discrepancies unto learning about military planes being subbed in for commercial airliners. And other factors etc.

Really, the greatest asset that those who support the official story have is that the Bush Admin, FBI, CIA, NSA, Supreme Court, and now the Obama Admin all have too much to lose w/the truth coming out, and hence no re-opening of the investigation despite the 9/11 Commission not making any scientific sense at all (or logical sense regarding the true spirit of the law, or even sense based on the Constitution).


It all comes down to who you'd rather believe. As far as I'm concerned, the 9/11 'truthers' have incredibly more substance to their claims than those that try to debunk them. Especially when you consider that you can research most of the points Loose Change 2nd Edition addressed, all for yourself using the internet.
---------------

Back to the main subject of this thread, after further reading and deliberation, I now feel that there isn't any way how Israel should give up their borders, especially in the current political climate of the region (it shouldn't even be up for discussion, in light of all what's going on there). Doing so would do nothing but give more advantage to all the plethora of people that want them dead. I felt that way from the start, but didn't solidify my stance until I had more data. I now have everything I need to make an informed decision, and there's no way Israel should give away any part of their land.

What's more, if you add the addendum of Obama's speech today on Sunday, he's maintaining that USA's support for Israel is 'ironclad' (even though his previous words, if followed, do nothing but give them less advantage to the threats they've always faced w/little-to-no let-up). The thing is that if Israel follows through w/Obama's talk to reduce their borders, the only way Israel then has a chance to fend for itself vs. all those who want them dead is to have America's military there helping; basically another occupation, for all intents & purposes. Israel would no more be a free nation in such a scenario, having their existence being contigent upon America's military having permanent bases there (and thus allowing Obama to manipulate them any which way he pleases, as he seeks to do w/everything else under his rule).

Last edited by bladeofBG; 05-24-2011 at 02:19 AM.
bladeofBG is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24