Mosque at Ground Zero - Page 5

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View Poll Results: Would you approve of a Mosque being built on Ground Zero
Yes, it creates unity 17 58.62%
No, religion shouldn't be mixed with ground zero 8 27.59%
Whats a Mosque? 4 13.79%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-20-2010, 10:04 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Yuksek View Post
Just do a search of a Japanese cultural center in Hawaii. It's there. I remember doing the drive.

Look. You're not getting it. You're implying that September 11th was an attack by Islam on America, when it was an Attack by Al Qaeda on America. Why should the 99.999 % of Muslim people be discriminated against by one stupid group that the rest of the population disagrees with?

I'm serious with the numbers too. 0.001 % is a far greater number to associate with terrorism and the muslim faith.
I know about 911 I just don't think this is a good idea. I am not implying that Muslims attacked the WTC and all are terrorists. Why do I have be a part of an implication just because I dont' want a place of faith get involved with Politics?

This is a political power play and if it wasn't we wouldn't be talking about it IMHO. I just think sometimes things shouldn't be done and Religion just should step aside and act peaceful rather than get involved in politics. Personally it doesn't effect me one bit if a Mosque goes on Ground Zero land or not but this is a debate and I decided to take this specific stance.

You know discrimination happens everywhere. This is one large reason why immgrants are here. Only difference is back then certain groups weren't able or chose not to stir such political acrimony during their time.

Personally I had enough of this debate. If a mosque goes up I just hope millions of dollars don't have to be spent in security. Then again why should I can its not my tax dollars.

Lets talk about something that efects Canada like the Tamil ship in BC.
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Old 08-20-2010, 10:08 AM   #82 (permalink)
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You should watch the video I posted earlier. It's more than just a mosque. There's going to basketball courts, a cooking school, recreational facilities etc. And all faiths are welcome to come. Having such facilities will increase the cost to 100 million dollars.
The Mosque is being built two blocks down and the facilities will be near ground zero. The Mosque is being built were the aiplanes landing gear landed during the 911 attacks.

Still sounds like a warm and fuzzy political power play to me.
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Old 08-20-2010, 10:09 AM   #83 (permalink)
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Not really comparable. How about a Japanese cultural centre at Pearl Harbour
islam did not wage war on america. by your reasoning there should be no christian churches or american cultural buildings anywhere near the oklahoma city building site that was bombed by timothy mcveigh.
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Old 08-20-2010, 10:13 AM   #84 (permalink)
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islam did not wage war on america. by your reasoning there should be no christian churches or american cultural buildings anywhere near the oklahoma city building site that was bombed by timothy mcveigh.
Yes you have a point there. Athough their was problably a ton of churches by that building already existing when that terible crime was created
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:59 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Well we are talking about a country that built itself through war. Heck the national anthem is about war. A 100 million dollar mosque is more about a political statement. Besides this mosque will never get built anyways.
There are enough local Muslims in the area to warrant a building of a mosque.
It's two blocks away from Ground Zero and is taking the place of a coat factory.
I fail to see a political statement (unless maybe by republicans/fox news for making this an issue).

Mind elaborating?
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:18 PM   #86 (permalink)
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There are enough local Muslims in the area to warrant a building of a mosque.
It's two blocks away from Ground Zero and is taking the place of a coat factory.
I fail to see a political statement (unless maybe by republicans/fox news for making this an issue).

Mind elaborating?
The landing gear of one of the planes that hit the WTC during 911 fell on that coat factory so its clear to say its still apart of the wreckage.

As for why its a political issue. Why would you want to build a holy place where a small minority of your people who are clear insane terrorists left their blood on the country you live in? Just smells like everyone but the peaceful winning.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:44 PM   #87 (permalink)
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the link you are making between islam and terrorism is false.
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:55 PM   #88 (permalink)
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The landing gear of one of the planes that hit the WTC during 911 fell on that coat factory so its clear to say its still apart of the wreckage.

As for why its a political issue. Why would you want to build a holy place where a small minority of your people who are clear insane terrorists left their blood on the country you live in? Just smells like everyone but the peaceful winning.
Don't you think its time to move forward?
We're nine years removed. Most, if not all, of the wreckage has been cleared.

I have a hard time looking at people with such sweeping strokes. There's a difference between Muslims and extremists. There's a difference between Germans and Nazis. Your examples are polarizing and a little silly.

These are honest American* people who want to practice their religion. The first amendment allows it. The president OK'd it. There is enough local support to warrant the building of a mosque.
I just can't see how this is more than a non-issue. I hope it blows over so everyone can move on.
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Old 08-20-2010, 02:19 PM   #89 (permalink)
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the link you are making between islam and terrorism is false.
18% of americans think that Obama is a muslim, even though the media was talking about his reverend for a year....so the link they make is understandable
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Old 08-20-2010, 02:25 PM   #90 (permalink)
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18% of americans think that Obama is a muslim, even though the media was talking about his reverend for a year....so the link they make is understandable
I'm not sure I follow. How does that fact justify the belief that all Muslims are terrorists?

Although maybe I've misunderstood your point; I would agree, to a certain extent, if you were saying "x% of the population is dense in situation y; therefore, you shouldn't be surprised if they're dense in all future situation y's, as well."

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Old 08-20-2010, 03:16 PM   #91 (permalink)
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DVS you've brought up some good points about what likely will happen if this center is built. Many ignorant Americans will be outraged and some extremists will say stupid shit.

However, we (you and me) cannot give in to the stupidity around us. We cannot let their stupidity dictate the opinions we may have. We have to look at this for the fairness of everyone.
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Old 08-20-2010, 04:58 PM   #92 (permalink)
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The terrorists, as far as I can tell, do not wish to take over America. Having a Mosque built two blocks from ground zero, while there is still such a large US military presence in the Middle East, and such a large US economic influence in the Middle East, and so much political influence and interference in the Middle East, would hardly represent any kind of victory worth celebrating. It's amazing - the terrorists are clearly idiots for taking on such poor means of fighting against what they dislike in this world, but at least they know what they are against and why. The way we come up with random fears and scattershot reasoning for betraying our own values has got to be something they laugh at, and it likely keeps them from seeing their own stupid choices in a more deserving light.
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:00 PM   #93 (permalink)
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The terrorists, as far as I can tell, do not wish to take over America. Having a Mosque built two blocks from ground zero, while there is still such a large US military presence in the Middle East, and such a large US economic influence in the Middle East, and so much political influence and interference in the Middle East, would hardly represent any kind of victory worth celebrating. It's amazing - the terrorists are clearly idiots for taking on such poor means of fighting against what they dislike in this world, but at least they know what they are against and why. The way we come up with random fears and scattershot reasoning for betraying our own values has got to be something they laugh at, and it likely keeps them from seeing their own stupid choices in a more deserving light.
I think this is the first time. LX and I see eye to eye.
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:09 PM   #94 (permalink)
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I think this is the first time. LX and I see eye to eye.
Thanks for hanging in there.
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:43 PM   #95 (permalink)
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the link you are making between islam and terrorism is false.
See their is no extreme link. These particular terrorists linked themselves up with Allah. To have that mixed in with real truth barring muslims I just find wrong.

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Originally Posted by Premiere View Post
Don't you think its time to move forward?
We're nine years removed. Most, if not all, of the wreckage has been cleared.

I have a hard time looking at people with such sweeping strokes. There's a difference between Muslims and extremists. There's a difference between Germans and Nazis. Your examples are polarizing and a little silly.

These are honest American* people who want to practice their religion. The first amendment allows it. The president OK'd it. There is enough local support to warrant the building of a mosque.
I just can't see how this is more than a non-issue. I hope it blows over so everyone can move on.
Thats fine you think my examples are polarizing and I do know the difference between Muslims and extremists. Problem is Extremists think they are Muslims and to mix the good Muslim with the bad even though its .001 like someone mentioned I find wrong.

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Originally Posted by Yuksek View Post
DVS you've brought up some good points about what likely will happen if this center is built. Many ignorant Americans will be outraged and some extremists will say stupid shit.

However, we (you and me) cannot give in to the stupidity around us. We cannot let their stupidity dictate the opinions we may have. We have to look at this for the fairness of everyone.
Well I'll just say this. I was brought up to try not to walk right into a piece of shit on the floor but to walk around it and find another route.

I think the point has been made and another route should be found IMHO.
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:44 PM   #96 (permalink)
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See their is no extreme link. These particular terrorists linked themselves up with Allah. To have that mixed in with real truth barring muslims I just find wrong.



Thats fine you think my examples are polarizing and I do know the difference between Muslims and extremists. Problem is Extremists think they are Muslims and to mix the good Muslim with the bad even though its .001 like someone mentioned I find wrong.



Well I'll just say this. I was brought up to try not to walk right into a piece of shit on the floor but to walk around it and find another route.

I think the point has been made and another route should be found IMHO.
i'm having a lot of trouble making sense of your point. you seem to think that because many people are ignorant and hate all muslims for the acts of a few terrorists, the us gov't should somehow bow down to this intolerance and not allow the building of a religious site. have i got that right? basically it's a matter of catering to the lowest common denominator?
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:38 AM   #97 (permalink)
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i'm having a lot of trouble making sense of your point. you seem to think that because many people are ignorant and hate all muslims for the acts of a few terrorists, the us gov't should somehow bow down to this intolerance and not allow the building of a religious site. have i got that right? basically it's a matter of catering to the lowest common denominator?
I don't see how religion should go near political catastrophes is all. Whenever religion molds itself into poltical issues a problem always occurs. Either it is people are oppressed, power is abused or some sort of genocide is encourage etc etc. I'm all for a mosque to be built anywhere peace shall reign. However; building it where a portion of people so foolishly mixed politics with religion I see a stain on that place of worship.
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:48 AM   #98 (permalink)
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I don't see how religion should go near political catastrophes is all. Whenever religion molds itself into poltical issues a problem always occurs. Either it is people are oppressed, power is abused or some sort of genocide is encourage etc etc. I'm all for a mosque to be built anywhere peace shall reign. However; building it where a portion of people so foolishly mixed politics with religion I see a stain on that place of worship.
all i see here is politics sticking itself in the middle of religion. now i am no big supporter of organized religion, but in liberal democracies (and especially republican democracies) people should be free to worship without political interference as long as the nature of that worship does not infringe on the rights of others. in this case it is not the worship at all that would cause problems, it's politics. and misguided politics at that.
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:59 AM   #99 (permalink)
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all i see here is politics sticking itself in the middle of religion. now i am no big supporter of organized religion, but in liberal democracies (and especially republican democracies) people should be free to worship without political interference as long as the nature of that worship does not infringe on the rights of others. in this case it is not the worship at all that would cause problems, it's politics. and misguided politics at that.
I think I'm closer to the fence than you think.

You make a lot of fantastic points but I don't think it will change my mind. To me its like the chicken and egg theory. Is 911 to be a pure poltical disaster that shouldn't be touched by religion or does poltics just let go and show the world they can sing kum ba yah and let a Mosque be placed at the location.

For myself I'll pick the more realistic choice.
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Old 08-23-2010, 11:05 AM   #100 (permalink)
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i just don't see how this has anything to do with 911, except that a bunch of yahoo extremists are linking islam with terrorism and getting uppity about a mosque in the relative vicinity of the site. we're not talking about building a mosque on the wtc site, we're talking about a religious ocmmunity centre a few blocks away. this is just straight up discrimination.
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