Mitt Romney puts his foot in his mouth - Page 5
Old 10-26-2012, 07:08 PM   #81 (permalink)
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sure maybe nothing was meant by it but even so, someone hosting an event like that, should not be making a mistake like that. I'd excuse it for some dumb hill billy, but not someone in that position. again man, a fucking disgrace, whether he meant it or not.
I think you're talking out of your ass. It's not clear that anyone is concious of their phonological encoding when forming utterances (in fact, it is extremely unlikely given how parallel the processes involved in forming utterances are) and it's not clear that it is a sign of unconscious prejudices or idiocy, either. Humans make mistakes, especially when speaking.
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Old 10-26-2012, 07:34 PM   #82 (permalink)
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I think you're talking out of your ass. It's not clear that anyone is concious of their phonological encoding when forming utterances (in fact, it is extremely unlikely given how parallel the processes involved in forming utterances are) and it's not clear that it is a sign of unconscious prejudices or idiocy, either. Humans make mistakes, especially when speaking.
talking out of my ass? All I simply said is such an unbelievable mistake, should not be occurring, on such a level. The name of the president... should not be mistaken for one of the biggest terrorists of modern day history. it's obscene really. talking out of my ass? filthy...
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:11 PM   #83 (permalink)
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talking out of my ass? All I simply said is such an unbelievable mistake, should not be occurring, on such a level. The name of the president... should not be mistaken for one of the biggest terrorists of modern day history. it's obscene really. talking out of my ass? filthy...
It is not at all unbelievable, unless you are claiming that it was a semantic mistake (ie. he really thinks that Osama and Obama fill the same semantic space). Rather, it is a simple slip of the tongue that occurs during the phonological encoding stage of building an utterance, something that does not imply stupidity on any level and that occurs with regularity.
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:14 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Last edited by Bill Haverchuck; 10-26-2012 at 08:14 PM. Reason: nvm - not needed at this point
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:48 PM   #85 (permalink)
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It is not at all unbelievable, unless you are claiming that it was a semantic mistake (ie. he really thinks that Osama and Obama fill the same semantic space). Rather, it is a simple slip of the tongue that occurs during the phonological encoding stage of building an utterance, something that does not imply stupidity on any level and that occurs with regularity.
what I'm claiming is that at that level, there should be no simply slip of the tongues or whatnot. I'm not saying he meant to do it, which for all we know he could have, all i'm saying such a mistake shouldn't be occurring on such a massive stage. a certain level of focus should be expected...
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:20 PM   #86 (permalink)
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what I'm claiming is that at that level, there should be no simply slip of the tongues or whatnot. I'm not saying he meant to do it, which for all we know he could have, all i'm saying such a mistake shouldn't be occurring on such a massive stage. a certain level of focus should be expected...
You are being unreasonable, and it is entirely a leap of faith on your part to say that a slip of the tongue indicates a lack of focus. Again, the full process that results in an utterance being produced is largely unconscious and so it is not something you can easily add or remove focus from except perhaps in the pre-verbal planning stage (and this speech error does not point directly to an error in the pre-verbal planning stage).

Have you considered the possibility that you just might not know much about the study of language and how it is produced, and you are, in fact, talking out of your ass? I myself know very little about linguistics (not my area of expertise) but I know enough to say that you are holding an unreasonable standard, and undoubtedly one that you could not reach.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:04 PM   #87 (permalink)
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You are being unreasonable, and it is entirely a leap of faith on your part to say that a slip of the tongue indicates a lack of focus. Again, the full process that results in an utterance being produced is largely unconscious and so it is not something you can easily add or remove focus from except perhaps in the pre-verbal planning stage (and this speech error does not point directly to an error in the pre-verbal planning stage).

Have you considered the possibility that you just might not know much about the study of language and how it is produced, and you are, in fact, talking out of your ass? I myself know very little about linguistics (not my area of expertise) but I know enough to say that you are holding an unreasonable standard, and undoubtedly one that you could not reach.
for the last time I am not talking out of my ass. there are countless professionals who deal on a daily basis with much more difficult names and words in terms of pronunciation, the majority of which they are unfamiliar to, and yet still happen to get them right, as much as an american with an american accent can. to mistake the name of your president, a common house hold name, for that of an ex-terrorist, well if that's asking too much then we as a species really have dropped the ball


I want some damn professionalism!
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:26 PM   #88 (permalink)
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You are talking out of your ass, you just don't know it. The problem is that you are not even understanding the point Ligeia is making, so this is a complete waste of time.

Pizzababy, you keep talking about elements that involve conscious control. You mentioned "focus" recently. Before you mentioned excusing a "hill billy", which is a reference that suggests a person with a lack of knowledge or sophistication; more elements that an individual could possibly consciously control under the right circumstances.

CONTROL IS NOT THE FUCKING POINT.

Ligeia was trying to direct your attention to unconscious processes.

In this case, the correct response is, "oh, that's interesting. You kind of put me on the defensive when you said I was just talking out of my ass, but that may be a possibility. It was unintentional. I'm just a teenager who knows very little about linguistics. So, despite the fact that I cannot say for certain that you are right, Ligiea, I concede that you have added an element to the discussion that I am not yet capable of fulling comprehending. I am going to refrain from continuing this debate until I am more well versed in the discipline of linguistics."
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:32 PM   #89 (permalink)
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for the last time I am not talking out of my ass. there are countless professionals who deal on a daily basis with much more difficult names and words in terms of pronunciation, the majority of which they are unfamiliar to, and yet still happen to get them right, as much as an american with an american accent can. to mistake the name of your president, a common house hold name, for that of an ex-terrorist, well if that's asking too much then we as a species really have dropped the ball
See, that's showing an even greater lack of critical thinking. It's the easy shit that people will often cause people to make small brainfarts. Obama and Osama are very similar. It's has nothing to do with being hard to pronounce. It's like people screwing up Maria and Marie, when talking about Maria but Marie is sitting in front of you. Or Jake is sitting in front of you while you're talking about Jack, and you say Jake when you mean Jack. That tends to be the type of shit that leads to brainfarts.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:41 PM   #90 (permalink)
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would we excuse a TV talking head for wishing someone "Good Fuck" on air? because it is similar to "Good Luck"? No, we wouldn't.... and it doesn't happen, because it is their job to be mindful of what comes out of their mouths.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:47 PM   #91 (permalink)
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would we excuse a TV talking head for wishing someone "Good Fuck" on air? because it is similar to "Good Luck"? No, we wouldn't.... and it doesn't happen, because it is their job to be mindful of what comes out of their mouths.
Except that you're using a poor comparison, because we're talking about people's names that should legitimately be on the speaker's mind. Obama is sitting across from him, while he is trying to talk about Osama. And, as bjjs mentioned, you also have the added dimension of these two names being connected so much in recent talk with one being the leader of the free world and the other being the boogey man to bring it down.

"Good fuck" would be a different type of error. That's closer to a legit freudian slip. For that to happen, the person would probably have to be thinking about sex while talking. The variables in this situation are different from the one you're introducing.

You have a host of people fucking up the name Obama and Osama on tape, as Youtube indicates. How often do people mistake "Good fuck" for "Good luck". It's really not the same thing, although I too lack the necessary expertise to say that definitively.
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:06 AM   #92 (permalink)
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for the last time I am not talking out of my ass. there are countless professionals who deal on a daily basis with much more difficult names and words in terms of pronunciation, the majority of which they are unfamiliar to, and yet still happen to get them right, as much as an american with an american accent can. to mistake the name of your president, a common house hold name, for that of an ex-terrorist, well if that's asking too much then we as a species really have dropped the ball


I want some damn professionalism!
You're right about people not making mistakes, but I'm sure you've also noticed that people often make mistakes, too. The problem here is that you attribute those mistakes to a lack of focus, a lack of control, or a lack of intelligence, while success is attributed to their opposites. You don't realize that both the "hits" and the "misses" could have relatively little to do with conscious thought.

If you demand professionalism in your TV sock-puppets, you should demand it in your arguments, too.

Tell me what you know about linguistics or neurolinguistics.

Last edited by Ligeia; 10-27-2012 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:12 AM   #93 (permalink)
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would we excuse a TV talking head for wishing someone "Good Fuck" on air? because it is similar to "Good Luck"? No, we wouldn't.... and it doesn't happen, because it is their job to be mindful of what comes out of their mouths.
I would excuse it. First, who gives a fuck if someone accidentally says fuck on the TV? Second, while I may disagree a little bit with Bill about how good fuck-luck is as an analogy in this context, there is at least one reason why fuck-luck is slightly different than Obama-Osama: I think the latter pair shares more semantic connections, particularly when you're in the middle of a political conversation, and so it is more likely to be a part of your "cohort", if you will.

Only Bill seems to get the real point here.
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:13 AM   #94 (permalink)
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I get the point. I just don't think pizzaboy is as wrong as you guys are suggesting.
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:17 AM   #95 (permalink)
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Can we just go back to making fun of Romney? Thanks.
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:52 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:18 AM   #97 (permalink)
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I get the point. I just don't think pizzaboy is as wrong as you guys are suggesting.
thanks for backing me up, and I'll make a post referring to bill and ligeia (never know how to spell it) later tomorrow, as i'm beat tonight. just.. could you refer to me using my actual user ID rather than one someone created on this site? at least when you're supporting me. thanks
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:32 AM   #98 (permalink)
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sure, dude.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:36 AM   #99 (permalink)
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thanks for backing me up, and I'll make a post referring to bill and ligeia (never know how to spell it) later tomorrow, as i'm beat tonight. just.. could you refer to me using my actual user ID rather than one someone created on this site? at least when you're supporting me. thanks
Start a new thread in the podium (or mods split this diverging conversation into a different thread) so that I don't upset Bill any more than I have already.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:56 AM   #100 (permalink)
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Start a new thread in the podium (or mods split this diverging conversation into a different thread) so that I don't upset Bill any more than I have already.
Upset me? Nah, never. I just thought maybe we'd exhausted that, but I guess not.
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