May 21, Judgement Day? - Page 6
Old 05-19-2011, 03:36 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Suggesting that science would tell us to "leave the weak behind so you ensure our survival" sounds a lot like "survival of the fittest", Benzo.

And this is exactly why I asked you to elaborate the first time, yet you declined.
You missed my point entirely.

Hypothetically speaking, all the deaf dumb mutes in the world, or people in coma's should be culled as the offer nothing to society but leach off the system. All I am suggesting is there is a reason we as a society dont do that, and it is not scientific.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:37 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Benzo
Science would tell us to leave the weak behind you ensure our survival

Thats pretty close to the survival of the fittest theory.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:38 PM   #103 (permalink)
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just to clarify, and to put this in the context of what i was discussing, does this mean you favour faith, or the absence of debate?
They are not mutually exclusive 'Trane.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:38 PM   #104 (permalink)
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You missed my point entirely.

Hypothetically speaking, all the deaf dumb mutes in the world, or people in coma's should be culled as the offer nothing to society but leach off the system. All I am suggesting is there is a reason we as a society dont do that, and it is not scientific.
Through science these people could be cured.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:39 PM   #105 (permalink)
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You missed my point entirely.

Hypothetically speaking, all the deaf dumb mutes in the world, or people in coma's should be culled as the offer nothing to society but leach off the system. All I am suggesting is there is a reason we as a society dont do that, and it is not scientific.
there are also very rational ideas as to why we shouldn't cull them. don't think that faith holds the key to all moral constructs.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:39 PM   #106 (permalink)
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They are not mutually exclusive 'Trane.
yes they are, by definition.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:40 PM   #107 (permalink)
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there are also very rational ideas as to why we shouldn't cull them. don't think that faith holds the key to all moral constructs.
Very happy to hear them.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:41 PM   #108 (permalink)
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No that's not what I said, I suggested ( to prove a point not my person feelings) that the human race would be better off culling the those leaching on the system. That is a rational thought. I was simply stating that compassion is tough to prove with an equation.
You didn't say "better off", you made reference to "survival".

Also, saying we'd be "better off" is another subjective term. How so? And how does "science" distinguish between economic and emotional/psychological health. Sure, maybe society would be in a better economic position, but it might not be happier. People's well being might be damaged by having friends and relatives let go. The verdict is most certainly not in on that one. In principle, there might be an answer, but there is no consensus right now. So you have no business saying that science would tell us we are "better off."

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Nowhere did i state it has anything to do with physical prowess or brain power.
Why did you use the term "weak" then? Again, this is why I asked you to elaborate the first time.

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I am also not stating that helping the "weak" hurts a species future survival, I believe compassion helps society, it just can't be measured.
Then why did you make reference to leaving the "weak" behind to ensure our survival?
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:42 PM   #109 (permalink)
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You didn't say "better off", you made reference to "survival".

Also, saying we'd be "better off" is another subjective term. How so? And how does "science" distinguish between economic and emotional/psychological health. Sure, maybe society would be in a better economic position, but it might not be happier. The verdict is most certainly not in on that one. In principle, there might be an answer, but there is no consensus right now. So you have no business saying that science would tell us we are "better off."



Why did you use the term "weak" then? Again, this is why I asked you to elaborate the first time.



Then why did you make reference to leaving the "weak" behind to ensure our survival?
Hence the quotations, I already clarified and did in my first post that by "weak" I mean leaches on the system.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:42 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Very happy to hear them.
for instance that caring and compassion promote community strength, and in strong communities, families and individuals can thrive. one example.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:43 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Also, saying we'd be "better off" is another subjective term. How so? And how does "science" distinguish between economic and emotional/psychological health.
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:44 PM   #112 (permalink)
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for instance that caring and compassion promote community strength, and in strong communities, families and individuals can thrive. one example.
I agree....why does that happen though....you guys are starting to prove my original point for me.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:46 PM   #113 (permalink)
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I agree....why does that happen though....you guys are starting to prove my original point for me.
mostly because of chemical reactions in the brain on a personal level and because strong collectives have historically helped to foster strong individuals on a social level.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:47 PM   #114 (permalink)
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You missed my point entirely.
What you said in that original post and what you're saying now is quite different, so I won't accept blame for that.

Thank you for clarifying what you meant.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:49 PM   #115 (permalink)
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mostly because of chemical reactions in the brain on a personal level and because strong collectives have historically helped to foster strong individuals on a social level.
And we are full circle, when you can prove to me why showing compassion causes certain chemical reactions in the brain that make communities stronger i will be a very happy dude.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:51 PM   #116 (permalink)
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And we are full circle, when you can prove to me why showing compassion causes certain chemical reactions in the brain that make communities stronger i will be a very happy dude.
i don't get your point. i'm just making a rational case for compassion to counter your rational case for culling. the point is that this is a debate based on reason, not one obfuscated by faith.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:56 PM   #117 (permalink)
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BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Again, I'm not entirely sure what you're responding to, so I want to clarify something, although I'm NOT accusing you of anything.

Look at my full paragraph:

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People's well being might be damaged by having friends and relatives let go. The verdict is most certainly not in on that one. In principle, there might be an answer, but there is no consensus right now. So you have no business saying that science would tell us we are "better off."
I'm saying there might be an answer; it''s just that there is no consensus right now. All throughout history, there have been problems that science couldn't answer, but it eventually did. So, just because we can't answer it now, does not mean it won't be answerable.

Nobody should make generalizations about what science says to do with those people you described, but it might be able to help us better understand what types of actions improve our overall well being in particular contexts. And maybe there is more than one answer, depending on the context. But people definitely can't say science would tell us to ditch em'.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:56 PM   #118 (permalink)
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I cannot wait to get home and reply to this. Please don't hold it against me if I join the conversation late again.
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Old 05-19-2011, 04:00 PM   #119 (permalink)
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i don't get your point. i'm just making a rational case for compassion to counter your rational case for culling. the point is that this is a debate based on reason, not one obfuscated by faith.
Ok, but I was not saying "culling is good" just that a rational case can be made for it, when we rely on the irrational when we don't.

You don't cull them because of something....you say chemical reaction, I say what causes it.

Thats it...
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Old 05-19-2011, 04:01 PM   #120 (permalink)
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I cannot wait to get home and reply to this. Please don't hold it against me if I join the conversation late again.
I am getting a little tired of it to be honest, so if i don't reply don't take it personally.
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