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-   -   ivy league applications (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f23/ivy-league-applications-20510.html)

pzabby 06-18-2011 12:35 AM

ivy league applications
 
im in grade eleven currently. participated in an honours program for the first three years of highschool; will be academic in grade 12. i'm a person who enjoys the best of two worlds, academics and athletics. you would find me being a part of both cliques. i generally tend to be the leader in group activities, inside/outside of schools and have a hefty profile to back me up. its always been a dream of mine to attend schools such as harvard, princeton, MIT, yale, etc but in that specific order. now i know to apply to these universities, you need three things. an SAT score, profile of extracurricular activities, superb grades, and letters of reccomendations. Now im just wondering if anyone on this site has gone through the process of actually applying to an Ivy league school because i would like to know how to study for the SAT's, who to ask for letters of reccomendation, etc. now i would really appreciate the help and this means a lot to me so please hold back on the sarcastic, comical, annoying remarks. thanks

Gurk 06-18-2011 01:42 AM

Damn I wanted to make a annoying remark. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-


Anyways, goodluck bro. I can't help ya out with this (:

Claudius 06-18-2011 01:53 PM

If you're looking for letters of recommendation, you should be looking at people who can give you good character references (not just academic) and people who can actually attest to you being a certain way.

For e.g. I wouldn't just ask my typical high school teacher for a reference. If you volunteer for instance, maybe ask the Exec. Director. Someone who holds some clout. Remember, alot of your competition (because that's what it is) are looking at getting the best references possible and it's not just their coach (unless the coach used to go to that school).

For the SATs, it's not different than studying for for your LSATs etc. I"d suggest just going to Chapters/Indigo and picking up one of those testing guides and go from there.

Bill Haverchuck 06-18-2011 02:36 PM

I have a list of comments to make. For now, I want to draw your attention to a forum devoted to applying to American schools. It has all kinds of threads related to ivy leagues schools and the application process. If you spend some time navigating the site, you'll probably find useful information. Of course, you still need to remember that it's the internet, so the views expressed on the site should be taken with a grain of salt.

LINK: Forum for applying to Ivy League schools

Claudius 06-18-2011 03:20 PM

Personally, I'd try to get into a canadian school first, get to grad school and then decide if the ivy league is worth it.

pzabby 06-18-2011 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 549802)
Personally, I'd try to get into a canadian school first, get to grad school and then decide if the ivy league is worth it.

ive been told both sides. some people say its better to go to the ivy league for your undergrad to build your connections from the ground up, and some say its better to finish with the ivy yet they haven't really gave me reasons why. why do you say that?

pzabby 06-18-2011 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck (Post 549793)
I have a list of comments to make. For now, I want to draw your attention to a forum devoted to applying to American schools. It has all kinds of threads related to ivy leagues schools and the application process. If you spend some time navigating the site, you'll probably find useful information. Of course, you still need to remember that it's the internet, so the views expressed on the site should be taken with a grain of salt.

LINK: Forum for applying to Ivy League schools

Thanks! i'll look into it. hopefully my guidance counsellor can be of actual use for once as well.

Bill Haverchuck 06-18-2011 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pzabby (Post 549821)
hopefully my guidance counsellor can be of actual use for once as well.

That's one of the things I wanted to mention. If this is something you're strongly committed to pursuing, then you should make an appointment with your guidance counsellor and go over a specific set of questions. For starters, the cost of attending such schools and how to fund it. That conversation, of course, could have huge implications for how you approach the SATs.

But there are a number of other things you should be talking to him/her about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 549802)
Personally, I'd try to get into a canadian school first, get to grad school and then decide if the ivy league is worth it.

This is an excellent point. In fact, I noticed in another thread that pzabby is interested in law school and business. If he decides to go the business route, it might be better to just go to a Canadian school for undergrad, and if things go well, then think about pursuing the MBA degree at an Ivy school, if he feels it's worth it.

Law is a different issue. If pzabby plans to work in Canada, I see no reason to go to the states for any degree, especially the law degree, since it will cost a motherfucking fortune, and the costs will far out weigh the benefits (assuming he wants to work in Canada). There are some huge differences between law schools in Canada and the U.S, and there are some huge differences between the respective legal job markets of each country. In my opinion, the only reason to go to an American law school would be if he wanted to work in the States. And, even in that scenario, it's not automatically the best decision, because McGill, U of T, and Osgoode are all cheaper than an Ivy school, yet can still open doors in New York, Boston, and California (assuming you get good grades, but grades are also an issue if you went to an Ivy school - you don't automatically get employed in the market of your choice just because you went to an Ivy)

pzabby 06-18-2011 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck (Post 549828)
That's one of the things I wanted to mention. If this is something you're strongly committed to pursuing, then you should make an appointment with your guidance counsellor and go over a specific set of questions. For starters, the cost of attending such schools and how to fund it. That conversation, of course, could have huge implications for how you approach the SATs.


But there are a number of other things you should be talking to him/her about.

cost is not an issue for me, or at least so it seems. my parents are willing and able to fund the tuition; i'm lucky in that sense. guidance counsellors have always brought me more grief than help yet im going to try and get help anyways. most of the time they just push you the route which requires less work on their part :sigh:.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck (Post 549828)
This is an excellent point. In fact, I noticed in another thread that pzabby is interested in law school and business. If he decides to go the business route, it might be better to just go to a Canadian school for undergrad, and if things go well, then think about pursuing the MBA degree at an Ivy school, if he feels it's worth it.

Law is a different issue. If pzabby plans to work in Canada, I see no reason to go to the states for any degree, especially the law degree, since it will cost a motherfucking fortune, and the costs will far out weigh the benefits (assuming he wants to work in Canada). There are some huge differences between law schools in Canada and the U.S, and there are some huge differences between the respective legal job markets of each country. In my opinion, the only reason to go to an American law school would be if he wanted to work in the States. And, even in that scenario, it's not automatically the best decision, because McGill, U of T, and Osgoode are all cheaper than an Ivy school, yet can still open doors in New York, Boston, and California (assuming you get good grades, but grades are also an issue if you went to an Ivy school - you don't automatically get employed in the market of your choice just because you went to an Ivy)

actually, for law school, if someone were planning to work in the U.S it would be better for them to get their degree their, in the preferred state too. to practice law in a region, you must take the local bar ads and so if you went to school in the region you wish to work, the bar ads would be much less stressfull. buisness however i do see from the perspective you're thinking of but i'm afraid i will not be able to make the necessary connections for a job in the 1.5-2 years of the secondary degree. i've heard before from graduates (who have their MBA) as well that most of the connections they built was in the first four years of university so wouldn't it be better, career wise, if i was thinking of working in the U.S, that i attending a U.S school for my undergrad?

Bill Haverchuck 06-18-2011 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pzabby (Post 549832)
cost is not an issue for me, or at least so it seems. my parents are willing and able to fund the tuition; i'm lucky in that sense.

If this is true, you're very lucky.

Quote:

actually, for law school, if someone were planning to work in the U.S it would be better for them to get their degree their, in the preferred state too. to practice law in a region, you must take the local bar ads and so if you went to school in the region you wish to work, the bar ads would be much less stressfull.
It depends. The point I was making is that it is not automatically better, or necessary, to go to the U.S. There are some circumstances in which you don't have to go. If that region is not New York, Mass., or California, then you will want to go to an American school. But those 3 states I named will allow Canadian graduates to write the exams. I have a relative who does IP and patent related work in California. He graduated from U of T. Some graduates from U of T, Osgoode and McGill end up working in New York and Boston, although those jobs are highly competitive.

If you go to the U.S. for law school, just make sure you do plenty of research before hand. Overall, the American legal job market sucks right now. Some people say that you shouldn't even go to an American law school unless you get into one of the top 8 (things might change by the time you're ready to go). It's high risk, especially given the huge tuition costs as compared to the Canadian schools. That's why if you wanted to work in say, New York, Boston, or California, it would be worth considering going to McGill or U of T. If things didn't work out, you'd still have a good chance to get a very good job in Canada, where the job market is more stable. There are some graduates from top American law schools who end up with mediocre jobs. It's just not as publicized as it should be. The Canadian job market is less risky.

But you know what? It's too early to be worrying about this much. It's probably better to take it one step at a time. A lot can happen at your age; interests can change quickly. Now that I know money is not an issue for you, I'd say just focus on the shorter term goal of getting into the undergrad institution you want to attend. My fault for derailing the convo too much.


Quote:

buisness however i do see from the perspective you're thinking of but i'm afraid i will not be able to make the necessary connections for a job in the 1.5-2 years of the secondary degree. i've heard before from graduates (who have their MBA) as well that most of the connections they built was in the first four years of university so wouldn't it be better, career wise, if i was thinking of working in the U.S, that i attending a U.S school for my undergrad?
I'm going to refrain from commenting any further on this aspect. If money is not an issue for you, that changes things.

P.S.

Take any internet advice with a grain of salt, including what you got here. Consult with your parents and guidance counsellors and do some research before making a decision. But, ultimately, you need to write the SAT and find out if you even have a chance at attending one of those schools. Get an SAT score before you get too ahead of yourself.

pzabby 06-18-2011 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck (Post 549872)
If this is true, you're very lucky.



It depends. The point I was making is that it is not automatically better, or necessary, to go to the U.S. There are some circumstances in which you don't have to go. If that region is not New York, Mass., or California, then you will want to go to an American school. But those 3 states I named will allow Canadian graduates to write the exams. I have a relative who does IP and patent related work in California. He graduated from U of T. Some graduates from U of T, Osgoode and McGill end up working in New York and Boston, although those jobs are highly competitive.

If you go to the U.S. for law school, just make sure you do plenty of research before hand. Overall, the American legal job market sucks right now. Some people say that you shouldn't even go to an American law school unless you get into one of the top 8 (things might change by the time you're ready to go). It's high risk, especially given the huge tuition costs as compared to the Canadian schools. That's why if you wanted to work in say, New York, Boston, or California, it would be worth considering going to McGill or U of T. If things didn't work out, you'd still have a good chance to get a very good job in Canada, where the job market is more stable. There are some graduates from top American law schools who end up with mediocre jobs. It's just not as publicized as it should be. The Canadian job market is less risky.

But you know what? It's too early to be worrying about this much. It's probably better to take it one step at a time. A lot can happen at your age; interests can change quickly. Now that I know money is not an issue for you, I'd say just focus on the shorter term goal of getting into the undergrad institution you want to attend. My fault for derailing the convo too much.




I'm going to refrain from commenting any further on this aspect. If money is not an issue for you, that changes things.

P.S.

Take any internet advice with a grain of salt, including what you got here. Consult with your parents and guidance counsellors and do some research before making a decision. But, ultimately, you need to write the SAT and find out if you even have a chance at attending one of those schools. Get an SAT score before you get too ahead of yourself.

that piece of advice was a very good one. thanks

Taz 06-18-2011 11:27 PM

I will just say good luck. I was in your shoes 10 years ago ... wrote my SATs, got my letters of recommendation, applied and all ... although I was leaning more towards a Canadian university anyway, personal reasons solidified the choice of U of T for me. Haven't regretted going there for a single moment.

GOOD LUCK!

Bill Haverchuck 06-18-2011 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taz (Post 549925)
GOOD LUCK!

+1

pzabby 06-19-2011 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taz (Post 549925)
I will just say good luck. I was in your shoes 10 years ago ... wrote my SATs, got my letters of recommendation, applied and all ... although I was leaning more towards a Canadian university anyway, personal reasons solidified the choice of U of T for me. Haven't regretted going there for a single moment.

GOOD LUCK!

amazing :). you will be of big help to me, if you wish to of course. if you don't mind me asking, did you end up applying and if so were you accepted into any of them?

Taz 06-19-2011 07:13 AM

I was accepted into Columbia, Princeton, UCLA, and Stanford. Didn't get Yale or Harvard.

Claudius 06-19-2011 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pzabby (Post 549820)
ive been told both sides. some people say its better to go to the ivy league for your undergrad to build your connections from the ground up, and some say its better to finish with the ivy yet they haven't really gave me reasons why. why do you say that?

Firstly, because undergrad is undergrad. Really, it doesn't mean that much if you plan on doing an advanced degree (regardless of what any guidance councilor tells you). I have an acquaintance who is at the top of her profession (a very lucrative business profession) and went to Nipissing.

Plus, the cost (I know it's not a big deal, but hey, saving your parents some time and money is always a good thing) over 4 years is worth it.

For grad school, heading to the US (or overseas, don't rule out great schools like University of Warwick for instance), allows you to enter into better conversations (for lack of a better term). You're closer to the power players in academics, if you're going to a larger, more prestegious school, more companies are paying attention to you since you're part of a smaller pool (not part of the large number of undergrads). You're closer to donors as well.

But yeah, do not discount Canadian schools (something that's typical). McGill is very well respected school internationally. I recommend going to check it out and contact staff (if possible) there to talk to them.

Just going to an ivy league school, doesn't mean that much. Trust me, there's a lot of really dumb kids there who have parents with really good connections.

pzabby 06-19-2011 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 550018)
Firstly, because undergrad is undergrad. Really, it doesn't mean that much if you plan on doing an advanced degree (regardless of what any guidance councilor tells you). I have an acquaintance who is at the top of her profession (a very lucrative business profession) and went to Nipissing.

Plus, the cost (I know it's not a big deal, but hey, saving your parents some time and money is always a good thing) over 4 years is worth it.

For grad school, heading to the US (or overseas, don't rule out great schools like University of Warwick for instance), allows you to enter into better conversations (for lack of a better term). You're closer to the power players in academics, if you're going to a larger, more prestegious school, more companies are paying attention to you since you're part of a smaller pool (not part of the large number of undergrads). You're closer to donors as well.

But yeah, do not discount Canadian schools (something that's typical). McGill is very well respected school internationally. I recommend going to check it out and contact staff (if possible) there to talk to them.

Just going to an ivy league school, doesn't mean that much. Trust me, there's a lot of really dumb kids there who have parents with really good connections.

so you're saying the majority of the connections i make will be in my post-grad program?

Claudius 06-19-2011 06:41 PM

If you're good you'll begin to make them in your undergrad. But yes, you really begin to establish yourself in grad school.

As well, in undergrad, participate in as many clubs/programs as possible. That also helps.

Ligeia 06-19-2011 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pzabby (Post 549820)
ive been told both sides. some people say its better to go to the ivy league for your undergrad to build your connections from the ground up, and some say its better to finish with the ivy yet they haven't really gave me reasons why. why do you say that?

I haven't read much else of the thread so I may be putting my foot in my mouth by jumping in at this post.

Starting in Canada is advantageous for many reasons. The close proximity and low cost mean that you are investing (and risking) less. I don't mean this strictly in a financial sense, either. There are a handful of schools in Canada that, certainly at the undergrad level, can compete with top-notch schools across the globe, so I don't think you're gaining anything by leaving.

Grad school is where the differences become a little more obvious. If you study who the top leaders have been historically, you see trends that center on particular programs at particular graduate schools. I personally feel that if you're the type who should go to an Ivy Leage grad school, it won't be a big deal that you went to, say, U of T instead of somewhere else for your undergrad degree.

I'd also like to point out that you shouldn't abandon the idea of a Canadian grad school, either. I know in my field of interest, the U of T, UBC, McGill, and Western are all considered internationally competitive schools for placement in academia.


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