I finally figured out why I'm not married yet lol... - Page 9
Old 11-26-2008, 04:24 PM   #161 (permalink)
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I used to be quite cynical about getting married. like aar i came from a broken (and violent) home growing up so there was a lot of memories of bad times and fear. it wasn't about repeating the cycle but being afraid of being responsible for my feelings when I knew I had a lot of fucked up feelings about relationships in general. that and all i knew was how to be in control.

then i met this person. it was difficult waiting for her to align herself with me, but after a year she did, and the hardest thing was living together. we ran off to guatemala to visit with some friends. we got into talking about marriage a bit before our trip. one of my friends there knew a mayan priest, and thought that if we wanted to commemorate our love and alignment, their way fit best with who we were.
so we celebrated this on the shores of lake atitlan, sacred to the mayan people, surrounded by volcanoes, and strangers who felt like friends. the ceremony lasted about twenty minutes. we didn't really understand what was going on half the time because the priest only spoke qui'che. with one translator going from qui'che to spanish, and another going from spanish to english, long speeches and declarations and prayers became single sentences.
but there was a point in the ceremony, when she (the priest) was asking the spirit of the place to consent to our bond. the wind died down, and we all looked at each other. the place was deliberating. the priest looked at us and then looked above our heads. there were two parrots watching the whole thing above our heads. then suddenly, they leapt off the branch, and flew down above my wife's and my head, hovering there for what felt like forever. then they shot out across the water, flying over each other, like they were tying some neverending knot.

when things got difficult for us in the early years and months, we always remembered that moment, and that something far older and deeper than us knew something we did not know yet. and that I soon realized that love is about participating in that deeper, older feeling of being alive in this place and how wonderful and uncertain it all is. it pains me to read articles and stories of people who think love doesn't exist. truth is, there isn't any word in this language that can describe how i feel about my wife. love comes close, but never close enough.

once you've emptied out the expectations, you're left with what, possibility, endless fucking possibility...becoming...in the end it's all transitory, all amazing.
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Old 11-26-2008, 04:24 PM   #162 (permalink)
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You guys (and gal) are just so sweet. lol.
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Old 11-26-2008, 04:26 PM   #163 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ClingRap View Post
I used to be quite cynical about getting married. like aar i came from a broken (and violent) home growing up so there was a lot of memories of bad times and fear. it wasn't about repeating the cycle but being afraid of being responsible for my feelings when I knew I had a lot of fucked up feelings about relationships in general. that and all i knew was how to be in control.

then i met this person. it was difficult waiting for her to align herself with me, but after a year she did, and the hardest thing was living together. we ran off to guatemala to visit with some friends. we got into talking about marriage a bit before our trip. one of my friends there knew a mayan priest, and thought that if we wanted to commemorate our love and alignment, their way fit best with who we were.
so we celebrated this on the shores of lake atitlan, sacred to the mayan people, surrounded by volcanoes, and strangers who felt like friends. the ceremony lasted about twenty minutes. we didn't really understand what was going on half the time because the priest only spoke qui'che. with one translator going from qui'che to spanish, and another going from spanish to english, long speeches and declarations and prayers became single sentences.
but there was a point in the ceremony, when she (the priest) was asking the spirit of the place to consent to our bond. the wind died down, and we all looked at each other. the place was deliberating. the priest looked at us and then looked above our heads. there were two parrots watching the whole thing above our heads. then suddenly, they leapt off the branch, and flew down above my wife's and my head, hovering there for what felt like forever. then they shot out across the water, flying over each other, like they were tying some neverending knot.

when things got difficult for us in the early years and months, we always remembered that moment, and that something far older and deeper than us knew something we did not know yet. and that I soon realized that love is about participating in that deeper, older feeling of being alive in this place and how wonderful and uncertain it all is. it pains me to read articles and stories of people who think love doesn't exist. truth is, there isn't any word in this language that can describe how i feel about my wife. love comes close, but never close enough.

once you've emptied out the expectations, you're left with what, possibility, endless fucking possibility...becoming...in the end it's all transitory, all amazing.
Absolutely beautiful.

Thanks for sharing, Cling.

You're makin' me girly
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Old 11-26-2008, 04:27 PM   #164 (permalink)
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Don't tell'em about the virgin thing 'Cuda .... chicks might fear him then.
For the last time Doc I'm NOT picking up the soap when you drop it!!!11111

I don't care HOW cute you are!!!111
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Old 11-26-2008, 04:29 PM   #165 (permalink)
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What good?
What good? Are you serious? Have you never met a missionary? Or seen what some local churches do for their communities?

Edit: NVM apparently I was very wrong here.

Last edited by TORaptor4Ever; 11-26-2008 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 11-26-2008, 04:30 PM   #166 (permalink)
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Is she on your FB page INSIDER, because I'd like to confirm this before you hook up TO. Based on our conversations as of late I'm starting to question your judgement.

hahahaha, its true.
i've made some bad decisions over the last 3-4 months.

look for the initials JB... thats all im giving you doc... and if your investigating reveals the person, dont post any names.
she's not the most photogenic (but who is), but in real life she's pretty darn cute.
i think TO would like her.
she's a really good kisser if that helps. LOL... dont worry TORap, other than a little tonsil hockey there was nothing more... sloppy seconds LOLOLOL.

Last edited by INSIDER; 11-26-2008 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 11-26-2008, 04:33 PM   #167 (permalink)
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hahahaha, its true.
i've made some bad decisions over the last 3-4 months.

look for the initials JB... thats all im giving you doc... and if your investigating reveals the person, dont post any names.
she's not the most photogenic (but who is), but in real life she's pretty darn cute.
i think TO would like her.
she's a really good kisser if that helps. LOL... dont worry hoops, other than a little tonsil hockey there was nothing more... sloppy seconds LOLOLOL.
Call me old-fashioned but I don't want ANY of my friends to ever be able to say that to me about my wife or g/f. lol.
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Old 11-26-2008, 04:38 PM   #168 (permalink)
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What good? Are you serious? Have you never met a missionary? Or seen what some local churches do for their communities?

Ever heard of a lady named Mother Theresa?
Mother Theresa refused to give the kids suffering in her orphanages any kind of pain medication. She said that God was enough to ease any suffering. Meanwhile she made use of the finest medical advances in her last years, including plenty of pain killers and morphine.

She raised an enormous amount of money for her Pope while taking pictures with some of the most disreputable people on the planet.

She fought tooth and nail against any kind of contraception in a poor country that desperately needed to control it's exploding population.
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Old 11-26-2008, 04:42 PM   #169 (permalink)
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As for marriage - neither me nor my wife needed to do it so much. The celebratory and communal aspect of it was the key for us. It was a great day, and we did it knowing that we were both pretty complete as individuals, but just that much more whole while together and surrounded by so many people that further enriched our lives.
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Old 11-26-2008, 04:45 PM   #170 (permalink)
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Call me old-fashioned but I don't want ANY of my friends to ever be able to say that to me about my wife or g/f. lol.
funny story...
in the summer i had a crazy fling with a girl. she was an absolute freak.
after things got boring, we just kinda parted ways and never spoke again.
a few weeks ago my buddy (who's been single for a while and has been searching for a woman for the longest time - after breaking up with his GF years ago) told us that he's found the girl of his dreams and that he's in love.
he brings her out so we can all finally meet her, and it turns out to be that same fling.
we were introduced and just shook hands and didnt say a word.
i didnt have the heart to tell my friend... and probably never will.
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Old 11-26-2008, 04:48 PM   #171 (permalink)
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It's not so much an opposition, it's not seeing the point.

The white dress as a sign of purity, the man proposing, the expensive ring, the groom as an afterthought, giving a woman one special day before she's confined to the kitchen "where she belongs". I'm not saying that any of you married folks bought into any of that, but that backwards, religious, fear-mongering, controlling era is where the whole ridiculous tradition comes from.

As someone who thinks religion in any form should be abolished from our planet and minds, the clinging on to pieces of some old fairytale, kinda drives me up the wall. Why can't we grow up and grow out of the need to pander to silly, imaginary forces above and all they require us to do in order to make things 'right' and 'honest'? Maybe the exhiliration people feel after they marry, has more to do with the fact they feel they've done their part in keeping the devil at bay. I mean, there are people out there who wouldn't fathom the idea of *gasp* having a child out of wedlock. Why?

Why not just have a party to celebrate the love you have for one another? I think that would be sweet. I mean, isn't that what a wedding is? Why the need for all the other malarkey?
well, there was no white dress, the rings cost $25 each, the groom was a huge part of the small wedding, and i do all the cooking in our family, so none of that malarkey applies.

second, the tradition goes back thousands of years, so the christian-right interpretation you're talking about is actually only a small phase of that tradition. and nothing is wrong with tradition, in and of itself, as long as it doesn't become dogma.

that whole paragraph on religion has nothing to do with my situation. we had a civil ceremony in a country that explicitly has no religion, neither of us have been to church as adults (me even as a kid), and we never registered our marriage with any state or church. you seem to have a preconceived notion of marriage that i don't share. be against it all you want, but so far your assumptions don't include my marriage.

in the end, we pretty much just had a party, with a simple ceremony in which we pledged to support one another equally. that's not malarkey, that's commitment.

also, it was loads of fun. it's worth iyt just for that...
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Old 11-26-2008, 04:52 PM   #172 (permalink)
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Mother Theresa refused to give the kids suffering in her orphanages any kind of pain medication. She said that God was enough to ease any suffering. Meanwhile she made use of the finest medical advances in her last years, including plenty of pain killers and morphine.

She raised an enormous amount of money for her Pope while taking pictures with some of the most disreputable people on the planet.

She fought tooth and nail against any kind of contraception in a poor country that desperately needed to control it's exploding population.
+1. she ran a cult of suffering. awful stuff, really...
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Old 11-26-2008, 04:52 PM   #173 (permalink)
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Mother Theresa refused to give the kids suffering in her orphanages any kind of pain medication. She said that God was enough to ease any suffering. Meanwhile she made use of the finest medical advances in her last years, including plenty of pain killers and morphine.

She raised an enormous amount of money for her Pope while taking pictures with some of the most disreputable people on the planet.

She fought tooth and nail against any kind of contraception in a poor country that desperately needed to control it's exploding population.


Apprarently I chose a poor example. Perhaps you can give me an appropriate one.

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Old 11-26-2008, 04:57 PM   #174 (permalink)
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I honestly had no idea that so many people were so against the concept of marriage.

Pretty eye-opening.
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Old 11-26-2008, 05:00 PM   #175 (permalink)
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What good? Are you serious? Have you never met a missionary? Or seen what some local churches do for their communities?

Edit: NVM apparently I was very wrong here.
Thousands of athiests have done the same.
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Old 11-26-2008, 05:02 PM   #176 (permalink)
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well, there was no white dress, the rings cost $25 each, the groom was a huge part of the small wedding, and i do all the cooking in our family, so none of that malarkey applies.

second, the tradition goes back thousands of years, so the christian-right interpretation you're talking about is actually only a small phase of that tradition. and nothing is wrong with tradition, in and of itself, as long as it doesn't become dogma.

that whole paragraph on religion has nothing to do with my situation. we had a civil ceremony in a country that explicitly has no religion, neither of us have been to church as adults (me even as a kid), and we never registered our marriage with any state or church. you seem to have a preconceived notion of marriage that i don't share. be against it all you want, but so far your assumptions don't include my marriage.

in the end, we pretty much just had a party, with a simple ceremony in which we pledged to support one another equally. that's not malarkey, that's commitment.

also, it was loads of fun. it's worth iyt just for that...

I hope you don't think that I was applying all of what I said to your situation. Like I said - party? Great. Commitment? Great. Contract? Wha?
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Old 11-26-2008, 05:04 PM   #177 (permalink)
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Thousands of athiests have done the same.
And I'm not implying that Atheists are incapable of working toward a "common good".

If you're raised with a good set of moral values you're very likely to be a good person.... regardless of religion.
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Old 11-26-2008, 05:08 PM   #178 (permalink)
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I hope you don't think that I was applying all of what I said to your situation. Like I said - party? Great. Commitment? Great. Contract? Wha?
well, my wife is a lawyer, so we're all good with contracts. really, on a pragmatic level, it's much better to have one. taxes, wills, home ownership - it's all a lot easier and financially more effective if you have that contract.
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Old 11-26-2008, 05:12 PM   #179 (permalink)
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And I'm not implying that Atheists are incapable of working toward a "common good".

If you're raised with a good set of moral values you're very likely to be a good person.... regardless of religion.
Right. And people do good things without any guidance from religion. The 'common good' is inherent in humans, regardless (and in spite) of religion. Which proves that it's not needed for people to do good. So, what are we left with? We're left with the wars it creates and the people it kills, discriminates against, dominates, controls and shames.

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Old 11-26-2008, 05:15 PM   #180 (permalink)
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well, my wife is a lawyer, so we're all good with contracts. really, on a pragmatic level, it's much better to have one. taxes, wills, home ownership - it's all a lot easier and financially more effective if you have that contract.

You said it was about love.
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