H1N1 Vaccine - Page 3
Old 10-28-2009, 10:39 PM   #41 (permalink)
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i'm debating getting this in the next day or so. I work in a hospital and have a new baby at home, so i'm thinking this may be a good idea.

Who else is getting the vaccine?
I agree. I'm sure a bunch of highly qualified researchers in the MEDICAL FIELD who do this for a living know what they are doing.

You guys are all paranoid and know nothing in comparison to them about medicine... nothing. We are a bunch of raptor's basketball fans.

Go to pubmd.com and read some articles on the flu and what it is. Don't waste your time on wikipedia and emails sent by radical theorists who don't study this stuff.
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Old 10-28-2009, 11:18 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bmats7 View Post
I agree. I'm sure a bunch of highly qualified researchers in the MEDICAL FIELD who do this for a living know what they are doing.

You guys are all paranoid and know nothing in comparison to them about medicine... nothing. We are a bunch of raptor's basketball fans.

Go to pubmd.com and read some articles on the flu and what it is. Don't waste your time on wikipedia and emails sent by radical theorists who don't study this stuff.
Yeah, because medical professionals have never advocated people taking stuff before only to find out several years later it is quite harmful.
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Old 10-29-2009, 06:43 AM   #43 (permalink)
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The Swine Flu shot administered in the 70's hurt thousands more people than the flu itself and I'm talking long term issues here. You get the shot, it doesn't hurt you immediately, fine. What does that chemical cocktail do down the road? No one knows because adequate studies have not be done on long term affects of adjuvants.

To the person who suggested we blindly follow walking credentials, you need to start thinking for yourself or you will be burned at some point in your life. Acie is right, doctors do get it wrong from time to time and most of them are just repeating what a few people at the top are saying.

Last edited by Apollo; 10-29-2009 at 06:45 AM.
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Old 10-29-2009, 12:09 PM   #44 (permalink)
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First off, it wasn't thousands, it was 25 deaths stemming from 500 cases. Horrible, for sure, but public health was and is in a no-win situation. Do nothing and have millions of deaths or do something and risk the possibility that the virus will die out, leaving only the cases of vaccinations gone wrong (and all of the criticism that goes with it). As I've mentioned before, these pandemics could cause a huge health problem, like the 1918 Spanish Flu, or, it could cause one death, like the '76 outbreak. And there are two sides or varying extremes. Those who say everyone should be innoculated, just to be on the safe side (considering we are in a pandemic) and those who say that we're being poisoned and all of this in unneccesary. And, by the way, the latter's not thinking for yourself. How can you think for yourself when you blindly follow myths and anti-vaccination extremism?

And what you're talking about - Guillain–Barre syndrome, is caused by the flu. The flu vaccine is comprised of sterile flu virus cells, so naturally, it would cause this in people who might be suseptible to contracting GBS from the flu. It's not from mysterious, evil chemicals.

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Old 10-29-2009, 01:50 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Why dont u guys all go back to the days of the bubonic plague in the 1300s in europe which killed millions.

The flu shot is essentially putting the dead virus into your body to strengthen the immune system. to STRENGTHEN the immune system.

We need to all stop tearing down the medical world and medical researchers with this propaganda conspiracy theory BS. And clearly, no one on this forum has any idea about the flu, it's side effects, or it's long term effects... moreso than these medical researchers.

Unless someone is a doctor on this forum (I know there is one), they shouldn't persuade people to not take the flu vaccine.
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Old 10-29-2009, 03:22 PM   #46 (permalink)
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We're discussing the shot and I don't care if you get it or not. That's your choice to make. I just know that in places where they considered making the shot mandatory for health care workers those workers kicked up a big stink, refused it, their unions backed them and the government dropped the idea.

Do some research and make the choice yourself. Don't mindlessly let anyone make up your mind for you. Everyone owes themselves more than that. Don't be lazy, read up. These shots have been fast tracked, they have new elements not present in standard shots, have no testing for long term effects, the company producing them made a hugely negligent mistake earlier this year that could have led to serious illness to many.

Read up on what's in the shot and not only the side effects of the shot but the effects the individual ingredients can have on you, like mercury for example.

Some countries are giving their leaders shots without added mercury and other toxins and so why can't they produce some of that for the masses? I'm sure there is a market for it.

Last edited by Apollo; 10-29-2009 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 10-29-2009, 03:52 PM   #47 (permalink)
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And read up on the fact that the amount of mercury in the shot is less than the amount contained in one can of tuna?

From Health Canada

Quote:
"... Both vaccines contain a small amount of thimerosal. Thimerosal is a form of mercury used in the H1N1 flu vaccine to stabilize it and maintain its quality during storage. Thimerosal is a different form of mercury than the mercury known to cause health problems. The amount in the H1N1 adjuvanted flu vaccine is much less than the daily limit recommended for environmental exposure to mercury. For example, there is significantly less mercury in the vaccine than you would find in a can of tuna fish ... Yes, the unadjuvanted vaccine does contain 50 ug of thimerosal while the adjuvanted vaccine has only 5 ug of thimerosal. The 50 ug remains within the daily limit recommended for environmental exposure to mercury. There’s significantly less mercury in the vaccine than you would find in a can of tuna fish."
You scare people with the language you use, and then you tell people not to be swayed and to find out for themselves. Great, but most won't and most will only take 'mercury' and 'toxins' away from what you're saying.
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Old 10-29-2009, 05:55 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Two minutes on google to find this and there is a tonne more:

Quote:
There are no data on the safety of the products during pregnancy, and little data on their use in children. Given the lack of evidence, the World Health Organization has recommended countries with the option should provide unadjuvanted vaccine to pregnant women.
Quote:
the uncertainties facing public health officials, who are dealing with incomplete, at times conflicting medical evidence.

For Canadians struggling with whether to get vaccinated for H1N1, the situation is even murkier. Some fear the safety of the vaccine more than the actual flu, while others are confused about the risks and benefits. As a result, a large portion of the public appears reluctant to take the vaccine.
Quote:
Some animal studies have raised the possibility that adjuvants might cause auto-immune diseases.
Our best shot against swine flu?


Quote:
The MF-59 adjuvant has been used in several vaccines. These vaccines, including tetanus and diphtheria, are the same vaccines frequently associated with adverse reactions.

I reviewed a number of studies on this adjuvant and found something quite interesting. Several studies done on human test subjects found MF-59 to be a very safe immune adjuvant. But when I checked to see who did these studies, I found—to no surprise—that they were done by the Novartis Pharmaceutical Company and Chiron Pharmaceutical Company, which have merged. They were all published in “prestigious” medical journals. Also, to no surprise, a great number of studies done by independent laboratories and research institutions all found a strong link between MF-59 and autoimmune diseases.
Dr. Russell Blaylock: Vaccine May Be More Dangerous Than Swine Flu Socio-Economics History Blog

Quote:
a majority of Canadians will be offered a flu shot that, for the first time, contains an immune booster designed to make the vaccine more effective.

The booster is derived from a natural oil called squalene, which belongs to a class of compounds known as adjuvants.
Our best shot against swine flu?
Quote:
Squalene in vaccines has been strongly linked to the Gulf War Syndrome. On August 1991, Anthony Principi, Secretary of Veterans Affairs admitted that soldiers vaccinated with the anthrax vaccine from 1990 to 1991 had an increased risk of 200 percent in developing the deadly disease amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), also called Lou Gehrig’s disease. The soldiers also suffered from a number of debilitating and life-shortening diseases, such as polyarteritis nodosa, multiple sclerosis (MS), lupus, transverse myelitis (a neurological disorder caused by inflammation of the spinal cord), endocarditis (inflammation of the heart’s inner lining), optic neuritis with blindness and glomerulonephritis (a type of kidney disease).

Because squalene, the main ingredient in MF-59, can induce hyperimmune responses and induce autoimmunity, a real danger exists for prolonged activation of the brain’s immune cells, the microglia. This type of prolonged activation has been strongly associated with such diseases as multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, ALS and possibly vaccine-related encephalitis. It has been shown that activation of the systemic immune system, as occurs with vaccination, rapidly activates the brain’s microglia at the same time, and this brain inflammation can persist for long periods.
Dr. Russell Blaylock: Vaccine May Be More Dangerous Than Swine Flu Socio-Economics History Blog

I don't intend to scare anyone. I'm not naive enough to place my entire confidence in the hands of doctors when there is an abundance of resources out there which I cannot guarantee that have thoroughly read but is available to me. If anyone is using scare tactics its the media. They provide little in the way of numbers and statistics but an abudance of what I call H1N1 flu shot marketing. They use stories of a child dieing in Ontario to try and sway people to get the shot instead of comparing the average amount of people who die or become seriously ill due to regular flu to that of people who come down with the H1N1 strain.

Last edited by Apollo; 10-29-2009 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:12 PM   #49 (permalink)
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You need to take two courses:

1 on research methods and data analysis
and another one in a university biology course which specializes on the influenza virus.

These doctors and "independant" researchers are obviously going to go against the mainstream publications which he admits are published in the highly regarded medical journals. Where else will they get their money from?

The doctor here talks about Squalene and how it is related to MS, parkinson's, alzheimers, ALS etc. The target age group is 65+ for the swine flu and also young children. These OLD people are very likely to contract other diseases such as alzheimers, parkinson's, MS, etc anyways!

So the doctor can either say, this vaccination is leading to these diseases... to trick people because that's his research. OR... normal people... would say older people are just generally more likely to contract these diseases.

Again... you can't pick out certain points you want to when not understanding the full picture. But it'd be like if searching on the history of the raptors... you picked out one of Snooch's posts and based everything on it.
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:18 PM   #50 (permalink)
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^

The paranoia and misinformation I'm seeing really is off the charts. And it's not the media, it's people on Facebook and Twitter, talking about government conspiracies to a) first make money off of us all from the vaccine and then b) kill us with said vaccine. And these are level-headed people, who, for some reason or another, have temporarily lost it.
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Old 10-29-2009, 11:26 PM   #51 (permalink)
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A case for vaccination - Healthcare in Canada - C-Health
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Old 10-30-2009, 12:17 PM   #52 (permalink)
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bah.

most of you love poker.

run the numbers.

are ya gonna get the flu?

if you do, are you likely to die?

How much more likely are you to be killed by a car?

Will you stop walking down the sidewalk or driving a car.

Our information society is creating paranoia. Always.
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Old 10-30-2009, 01:10 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Bmats7 and Aar_Canada,

I presented information by a third party, someone who does not have a direct stake in the flu shots. The information could not adequately be rebutted and so what do you both do? Try to personally attack a source you know nothing about. If an oil company told you that they did studies that found that diesel and gas machinery emissions had no impact on the atmosphere would you believe them over a third party study suggesting otherwise? If the cigarette companies came out and said that their products did not cause cancer would you believe them over a third party suggesting otherwise? If the politicians in Ottawa told you that they did not take your tax dollars and use them for their own benefit would you believe them over a third party saying otherwise? I think the answer to all three would be NO, of course not. So why on earth would you beleive a big pharma study suggesting that the shot ingredients have virtually no risks over third parties who are suggesting otherwise? Who loses the billions if its not totally safe? Who has a reputation of selling products that hurt people? You say that these thrid parties are profiteering. Hello, am I missing something there? These people are doctors, they make more money than they could have a real use for already. I see them selling nothing in these articles. They're not driven by profit like big corporations are. The main goal of any corporation, with the exception of no profits, is to maximize profits and to distribute money to the owners.

Third party independent analysis is an important tool in this society. It an important control to prevent or stop wrong doings either intentional or unintentional.


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bah.

most of you love poker.

run the numbers.

are ya gonna get the flu?

if you do, are you likely to die?

How much more likely are you to be killed by a car?

Will you stop walking down the sidewalk or driving a car.

Our information society is creating paranoia. Always.
This is another thing I've been saying. The media is using sensationalism instead of providing statistics. A little boy died and that is tragic and I feel for the family but how many people are dieing out of the confirmed infections? How does that proportion compare to the proportion of people who become infected by the regular flu and die? This simple will calculation is not being provided. I can tell you that over 30,000 people in America alone die from the regular flu each year and to date H1N1 is hovering a little over 3000 for the world.

Last edited by Apollo; 10-30-2009 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 10-30-2009, 04:21 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:13 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Yes, do run some numbers; check and see which is more likely to harm or kill you: a flu, or a vaccine? 5000 people have died from H1N1 (although weeding out cause of death can be tricky with multiple conditions), but how many have died from a flu shot?

May I also say that your example of the climate change or cigarette smoking was a result of those companies trying to buck mainstream science's opinion, not the other way around. So they are certainly different in that respect.

Again with the squalene (which is a chemical your body naturally produces). I encourage you to look up the actual studies and review the complete literature, rather than assuming that because your "third party" has a differing opinion then they must have adequately and accurately reviewed all studies. A lot of this anti-vaccine nonsense stems from the same crowd that has been mistakenly claiming autism is caused by vaccines, again due to a lack of scientific rigour on their part. There simply is no hard evidence that squalene (or thimerosal, for that matter, which is only in some H1N1 vaccines) cause any negative health outcomes for humans.

By the way, the vaccines given to the Gulf War soldiers did not have squalene as an adjuvant.
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:49 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Yes, do run some numbers; check and see which is more likely to harm or kill you: a flu, or a vaccine? 5000 people have died from H1N1 (although weeding out cause of death can be tricky with multiple conditions), but how many have died from a flu shot?
That is totally flawed. No one is suggesting that if you get this vaccine to you will drop dead because of it. We're discussing the potential affects from getting the shot. Yes, people do die from the shot hours later, I don't have a stat for that, its a small number and that's not what concerns me and that's not what we've been discussing anyway.

And you know what? You're right. There isn't a lot of information out there on the long term affects or short term affects of this adjuvant but there seems to be a growing concern from people outside of Big Pharma's reach. In fact its troubled the Americans enough to order all their shots without it included. They're willing to wait longer to use something they are more comfortable with and that has more information and data supporting it.

Last edited by Apollo; 10-30-2009 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:02 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I'll summarize my point more seriously:

We know what the effects are of getting the flu. There are also vaccines to fight the flu using ingredients that have been used for over a decade with no hard evidence of negative impact to humans. It seems more beneficial to get the vaccine than to not get it.
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:55 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Is it any coincidence that this ''flu'' originated in Mexico? I don't think so.

I don't trust the vaccine at all, just like I don't trust the regular flu shot. Who knows what they are putting in our bodies. Could be anything.

I won't be getting it.
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:55 PM   #59 (permalink)
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The media has been irresponsible with their use of fear over the years. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a real serious risk behind this disease. There are few threats quite as large out there. There is plenty of solid scientific information out there regarding that. You've got a very adaptable virus that spreads easily and has the potential to become deadly. That doesn't leave much room for debate for me. I had the regular old flu and felt like was going to die for three weeks. Maybe that makes it easier for me to get my head around that.
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:00 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Oh sure blame the media. CNN has done everything possible to update viewers. Heck even Dr. Gupta and Anderson Cooper has been infected with Swine Flu. They know first hand exactly how awful it is. People have been dying.

Don't you dare blame the media.
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