G20 Summit - Page 9
Old 06-28-2010, 10:41 PM   #161 (permalink)
hibernating

Retired Administrator
 
Benzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,290
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
holding a 15 year old kid for 33 hours because he was near to a protest is unconstitutional. so is detaining people who have not committed a crime. dreaming of civil liberties in canada shouldn't be necessary since they are already constitutionally protected.
Objection.

Assumption
Benzo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 10:42 PM   #162 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,546
Representing:
Default

what's the assumption?
'trane is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 10:43 PM   #163 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Superjudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,593
Representing:
Default

oh good lord.

do you know what was happening while the cars were burning?

Or does it matter?
Superjudge is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 10:45 PM   #164 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,546
Representing:
Default

i think you're missing my point sj.
'trane is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 10:53 PM   #165 (permalink)
hibernating

Retired Administrator
 
Benzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,290
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
what's the assumption?
Do you know why they arrested the 15 year old?
People are detained without committing a crime everyday in every city around the world..even ours.

They should have turned on the hoses long before it got to that level. Only thing I hate more than people not having rights, is when people abuse those rights.

'trane civil liberties is not a right it is a privilege (IMO), I know we will disagree on this, which is why I have stayed out of this.

If the protests were civil, there would have been no issue. The peaceful protesters should be pissed at those causing trouble, not the cops for protecting my property.

We have protests in this city every friggen month. this was different...and I think you know it.
Benzo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 10:54 PM   #166 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,349
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
i would have had a police line on either side of the protest to prevent them from getting at the storefronts. i wouldn't have penned them into areas and abandoned cars. i would have been prepared for this kind of thing. see torap, the fact that they did it on sunday is proof to me that it is possible. ow was one day different from the next in this regard? this is not the fault of the cops on the ground, it is the fault of the chief and the strategists who let it happen. and if, indeed, there were undercover officers amongst the ranks of the black clad violent groups, then we really have an affront to democracy going on.

the hiker analogy is ludicrous. this is downtown toronto and a public space.

and youtube interest, protest interest or human curiosity, it doesn't matter why people came. they had every right to be there
.
People have every right to walk around Jane & Finch at 4AM wearing gold chains and rolexes but do you think it's the best idea? Even though it's "public space"?

It isn't as if these protests just happened out of the blue and people were caught unaware.... everyone knew WELL in advance what was going to be involved. You had a choice to be there.... or to not be there. And if you went then you went with the understanding that you weren't going to be able to predict what was going to happen.

You'd have to be naive to think that you were just going to go down there and watch everything happen without any assumed risk at all.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 10:56 PM   #167 (permalink)
hibernating

Retired Administrator
 
Benzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,290
Representing:
Default

and before you jump on me for the "privilege" not a "right"...lets remember we do not live in 1789 Paris.
Benzo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 10:56 PM   #168 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Superjudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,593
Representing:
Default

nah.

you're in my wheel house now, I had my fill of political science brother. I know the score.

I also know that 20 of the worlds biggest leaders... the '20' from G20, were making their way outta dodge.

Small picture, sure, ya, some people have some beefs. small price to pay bigger picture. This G20 couldnt have gone off more smoothly. Canadians can cry about few people who were tossed in the hole for a day by mistake, shit happens when you have to do things at high speed. Canadians can whine about 100 people standing in the rain for 5 hours.... a lot will do that to watch the Who at Molson park. Nobody gives a shit about the bigger picture... ever. Not here at least.

This is one of the best places in the world to be. A fantastic economy, safe living for the most part, Iphones, you name it. You have to sarifice here and there.

If people got dragged out of thier houses then fine. What happened was that people, who chose to go down to a volatile area, got caught in the crossfire. And to sit and watch those bastards leave that jail last night and cry foul sickened me to no end. Take some fucking responsibility.

oooh surprise surprise last night at 6 pm when the cameras all fled to queen and spadina and the rubber neckers swarmed. To thier dismay, they got trapped, AFTER they were told to leave. I know because i saw it happen on live television. Take some responsibility for fuck sakes.

End story. G20 done. Nobody died, nobody was even close to seriously hurt save a few ego's.

city of 5 million and were crying about a few that fell through the cracks.

were too sheltered in this country
Superjudge is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 10:58 PM   #169 (permalink)
hibernating

Retired Administrator
 
Benzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,290
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superjudge View Post
nah.

you're in my wheel house now, I had my fill of political science brother. I know the score.

I also know that 20 of the worlds biggest leaders... the '20' from G20, were making their way outta dodge.

Small picture, sure, ya, some people have some beefs. small price to pay bigger picture. This G20 couldnt have gone off more smoothly. Canadians can cry about few people who were tossed in the hole for a day by mistake, shit happens when you have to do things at high speed. Canadians can whine about 100 people standing in the rain for 5 hours.... a lot will do that to watch the Who at Molson park. Nobody gives a shit about the bigger picture... ever. Not here at least.

This is one of the best places in the world to be. A fantastic economy, safe living for the most part, Iphones, you name it. You have to sarifice here and there.

If people got dragged out of thier houses then fine. What happened was that people, who chose to go down to a volatile area, got caught in the crossfire. And to sit and watch those bastards leave that jail last night and cry foul sickened me to no end. Take some fucking responsibility.

oooh surprise surprise last night at 6 pm when the cameras all fled to queen and spadina and the rubber neckers swarmed. To thier dismay, they got trapped, AFTER they were told to leave. I know because i saw it happen on live television. Take some responsibility for fuck sakes.

End story. G20 done. Nobody died, nobody was even close to seriously hurt save a few ego's.

city of 5 million and were crying about a few that fell through the cracks.

were too sheltered in this country
Not bad SJ...not bad at all
Benzo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 10:59 PM   #170 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,546
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzo View Post
Do you know why they arrested the 15 year old?
People are detained without committing a crime everyday in every city around the world..even ours.

They should have turned on the hoses long before it got to that level. Only thing I hate more than people not having rights, is when people abuse those rights.

'trane civil liberties is not a right it is a privilege (IMO), I know we will disagree on this, which is why I have stayed out of this.

If the protests were civil, there would have been no issue. The peaceful protesters should be pissed at those causing trouble, not the cops for protecting my property.

We have protests in this city every friggen month. this was different...and I think you know it.
good post.

civil liberties are very much rights - particularly assembly and speech as protected by law - but we can leave that alone if you wish.

if the protests were civil i would agree. but they weren't. and the police did not protect property until day 2. that's precisely my problem. they allowed the violence and used it as a pretext for detaining people without cause or warrant, and then they did, on day 2, what they could have done on day 1.

900 arrests, and an estimate of 100-200 violent protesters. seem out of proportion maybe?
'trane is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 10:59 PM   #171 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,349
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzo View Post
Do you know why they arrested the 15 year old?
People are detained without committing a crime everyday in every city around the world..even ours.

They should have turned on the hoses long before it got to that level. Only thing I hate more than people not having rights, is when people abuse those rights.

'trane civil liberties is not a right it is a privilege (IMO), I know we will disagree on this, which is why I have stayed out of this.

If the protests were civil, there would have been no issue. The peaceful protesters should be pissed at those causing trouble, not the cops for protecting my property.

We have protests in this city every friggen month. this was different...and I think you know it.
Agreed 100%.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 10:59 PM   #172 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Superjudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,593
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzo View Post

We have protests in this city every friggen month. this was different...and I think you know it.
I was gonna touch on that.

I had this discussion with my hippie friend today who complained that the media only showed the mayhem.

I said, jesus, there's a protest every week that gets full coverage in our papers, and there will be more after this weekend, when we ever gonna have burning cars again???

Give um a break!
Superjudge is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 11:00 PM   #173 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,546
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superjudge View Post
nah.

you're in my wheel house now, I had my fill of political science brother. I know the score.

I also know that 20 of the worlds biggest leaders... the '20' from G20, were making their way outta dodge.

Small picture, sure, ya, some people have some beefs. small price to pay bigger picture. This G20 couldnt have gone off more smoothly. Canadians can cry about few people who were tossed in the hole for a day by mistake, shit happens when you have to do things at high speed. Canadians can whine about 100 people standing in the rain for 5 hours.... a lot will do that to watch the Who at Molson park. Nobody gives a shit about the bigger picture... ever. Not here at least.

This is one of the best places in the world to be. A fantastic economy, safe living for the most part, Iphones, you name it. You have to sarifice here and there.

If people got dragged out of thier houses then fine. What happened was that people, who chose to go down to a volatile area, got caught in the crossfire. And to sit and watch those bastards leave that jail last night and cry foul sickened me to no end. Take some fucking responsibility.

oooh surprise surprise last night at 6 pm when the cameras all fled to queen and spadina and the rubber neckers swarmed. To thier dismay, they got trapped, AFTER they were told to leave. I know because i saw it happen on live television. Take some responsibility for fuck sakes.

End story. G20 done. Nobody died, nobody was even close to seriously hurt save a few ego's.

city of 5 million and were crying about a few that fell through the cracks.

were too sheltered in this country
you may just be totally insane. you are willing to give up your civil liberties for nothing. that's incredible to me. you are suggesting that getting caught in a crossfire is a good reason for arrest??? really?

Last edited by 'trane; 06-28-2010 at 11:03 PM.
'trane is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 11:02 PM   #174 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,546
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
People have every right to walk around Jane & Finch at 4AM wearing gold chains and rolexes but do you think it's the best idea? Even though it's "public space"?

It isn't as if these protests just happened out of the blue and people were caught unaware.... everyone knew WELL in advance what was going to be involved. You had a choice to be there.... or to not be there. And if you went then you went with the understanding that you weren't going to be able to predict what was going to happen.

You'd have to be naive to think that you were just going to go down there and watch everything happen without any assumed risk at all.
i can't believe what i am reading here. if people got hurt attending you would have a completely credible argument. but this wasn't an issue of them getting hurt, it was an issue of being arrested for attending a rally in a public place. that's not the same thing at all.
'trane is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 11:08 PM   #175 (permalink)
hibernating

Retired Administrator
 
Benzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,290
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
i can't believe what i am reading here. if people got hurt attending you would have a completely credible argument. but this wasn't an issue of them getting hurt, it was an issue of being arrested for attending a rally in a public place. that's not the same thing at all.
They had designated spaces for those who wanted they're voices heard....nobody went there... because you had to throw rocks at cops to get on tv.

The cops outsmarted the criminals...plain and simple...people wanted to get arrested we both know it...

WHAT THE FUCK WAS A 15 year old doing in an area where everyone with a brain knew there would be trouble....because he disagrees with India's foreign policy?.....i doubt it.

The whole thing was a cluster fuck..everyone was to blame..(but us smart folks who watched it on tv) I just refuse to put the blame on the cops when after the 1st night there was public outcry for it not to happen again...democracy worked...it was the people who wanted nothing to do with this thing that wanted the cops to step in on the second day.

Its over.....so where is Bosh going?
Benzo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 11:10 PM   #176 (permalink)
------------------------

Senior Member
 
XiaominWu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,393
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzo View Post
WHAT THE FUCK WAS A 15 year old doing in an area where everyone with a brain knew there would be trouble....because he disagrees with India's foreign policy?.....i doubt it.
maybe he has family in kashimir. ever consider that? huh? huh? didja?
XiaominWu is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 11:10 PM   #177 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,546
Representing:
Default

that 15 year old should be allowed to go and watch without fear of arrest, and i don't see how a government can suggest that you can only speak out when kept far away from the summit. this is exactly what happened at the apec protest when i was at ubc. it's an affront to living in this country.

i am in n way suggesting that violence should be acceptable, but this is clearly a case of manufactured consent, and it troubles me.
'trane is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 11:11 PM   #178 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,349
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
i can't believe what i am reading here. if people got hurt attending you would have a completely credible argument. but this wasn't an issue of them getting hurt, it was an issue of being arrested for attending a rally in a public place. that's not the same thing at all.
How do you know what people were arrested for? I think you're assuming that the vast majority of the people who were detained were simply "innocent onlookers" when that may have not exactly been the case.

If you're shouting profanities and gesticulating wildly it's likely that the police are going to err on the side of caution and remove you, rather than possibly incite violence.... and I really can't blame them for doing so.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 11:11 PM   #179 (permalink)
hibernating

Retired Administrator
 
Benzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,290
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XiaominWu View Post
maybe he has family in kashimir. ever consider that? huh? huh? didja?
We both know his whole family would already be here.......
Benzo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 11:11 PM   #180 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Superjudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,593
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
you may just be totally insane. you are willing to give up your civil liberties for nothing. that's incredible to me. you are suggesting that getting caught in a crossfire is a good reason for arrest??? really?
yep.

it sure as shit is. You're asking the impossible.

oddly, everything that happened, was orchestrated so perfectly it hurts.

It was never about Black bloc tactics and protesters.

it was about car bombs, suicide bmbers, snipers, and terror opportunities.

The G20 leaders were being escorted away, and nobody even looked on Saturday. I've said it a few times now, the billion bucks wasnt spent on fancy cop gear and fencing. they put up fences for the molson indy. It ws spent on survellence and ground/ air/ water management and protection. CIA/ CSIS intelligence, border screening etc.

Torontonians are so self centered.

Calrly Simon baby...... you're so vain..... I bet you think this summits about you.....

It was the fucking G20, its global, and we couldnt have those guy touched, and you have to have G20's in big cities (i know its a silly political posture, but it exists) to show that you CAN have it in a big city.

It was always about keeping Obama et al from being killed, not about a few idiot anarchists. The cops should have just let um destroy everything if the end result would be all these people licking their wounds, submitting lawsuits, and taking not one spec of responsibility for going down to the site where a fucking riot just about started not 24 hours before
Superjudge is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24