G20 Summit - Page 12
Old 06-30-2010, 11:36 AM   #221 (permalink)
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I have no sympathy for people who provoke confrontation, and then cry when confronted.
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:57 AM   #222 (permalink)
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G20 Protests in Toronto - The Big Picture - Boston.com

Some great great pictures...clearly the guy stealing the bell cell phone, in only exercises his right to protest.

He must be his statement against Bell outsourcing to India

Bigger more important question is while all this was going on....the HST slid right under our noses....
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Old 06-30-2010, 12:02 PM   #223 (permalink)
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I have no sympathy for people who provoke confrontation, and then cry when confronted.
For me, it's a bit like the guy who has enough drinks to be just under the legal limit, goes out driving around looking for RIDE checkpoints.... then cries foul when he gets hauled in.
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Old 06-30-2010, 12:05 PM   #224 (permalink)
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I have no sympathy for people who provoke confrontation, and then cry when confronted.
and i have no tolerance for police services that cannot draw a distinction between obnoxious provocation within the law and actual criminal activity. there is a necessity to rise above the personal in situations like these.
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Old 06-30-2010, 01:18 PM   #225 (permalink)
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and i have no tolerance for police services that cannot draw a distinction between obnoxious provocation within the law and actual criminal activity. there is a necessity to rise above the personal in situations like these.
Finally got a chance to talk to one of my buddies (my roommate 1st yr at uni who's been a good friend for about 15 yrs now) who a TO cop and was on the riot squad downtown for the G20.

Thought you might be interested to hear his side of the story.

Some of what he said.....

- the first day there were about 20,000 protestors with roughtly 1,000 black bloc mixed in. Police were placed strategically around the protest route but it became exceedingly difficult to maintain order when different factions of black bloc moved off of the route (where officers weren't) and started to destroy property. They actively looked for places where the cops WEREN'T before starting to vandalize.

- the second day the group of protestors was much, much smaller... it was actually more of a gathering rather than a protest march with an assigned route... and thus far easier for the police to contain (which they did when they noticed that there were dozens of black bloc mixed into the crowd).

- protestors were told repeatedly to "back off" and/or "turn around and leave the area immediately"... if they refused to comply they were arrested and charged with "Breach of the Peace" or "Disorderly conduct". The officers knew full well that these people would only be detained for a few hours before being let go (unless they could be charged with solid evidence) but getting unruly people off the streets diffuses the situation much faster than letting them stand there and work themselves into a frenzy.

- Toronto Police received tips and raided and arrested 2 large groups of Black bloc dissidents (one group at U of T, one in Parkdale) about 100-150 in each spot which cut into their numbers considerably over the weekend.

- Plain clothes officers also made some arrests (one officer caught 5 black bloc preparing a bag of molotov cocktails) and did their best to weed out the violent protestors from the innocent ones. They also confiscated bunches of homemade weapons (2x4s, clubs, bats etc) that were placed around the parade route for easy access to black bloc protestors who were in the know.


Just some of what went on that is probably unknown by most of the public. On the whole, the Police did a very good job of ensuring the safety of the general public IMO.... things could have been MUCH, much worse without the good intel and preventative measures that they took.

I'm sure that there were a few cops here & there who got out of line and probably abused their authority a buit but I'm not willing to paint the whole police force with the same brush. They weren't manning water canons and shooting people with plastic bullets.... they were holding a line and ASKING people to leave. If they didn't then they deserved what they got.

Sorry if you disagree 'trane... but that's JMO.
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Old 06-30-2010, 01:36 PM   #226 (permalink)
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that actually makes me feel worse about what happened. those numbers are clearly inflated, the police should have no right to clear peaceful people from a public space, and if the second day was more peaceful there was no need for that number of arrests. the fact that they see themselves as justified in these actions is further proof to me that an independent investigation of the incidents is crucial.
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:31 PM   #227 (permalink)
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Huh?

The 2nd day was more peaceful BECAUSE of all of the arrests (and due to the fact that weapons and black bloc members were taken off the streets).

As for these "peaceful people".... you mean the people who went downtown in spite of the warnings? The people who actively REFUSED to leave the area after being told by police several times?

You're making it sound as though Toronto Police went out on an average day and just started clearing people out of Bloor West Village or something... jeez.
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:32 PM   #228 (permalink)
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that's exactly what they did.

why do you think the police have a right to warn people not to go to a public space?
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:37 PM   #229 (permalink)
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Do we no longer have laws against loitering?
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:44 PM   #230 (permalink)
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give me a break. and how is sitting in a park, or a street median like university, or walking through downtown loitering.

i continue to be amazed that you are looking for ways to justify police action to deny people every day liberties within their own city.
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:57 PM   #231 (permalink)
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i thought you needed permits to protest. different country, but i remember hearing about a pro-nazi rally in germany being bombarded by anti-nazi protesters and the anti-nazi protesters being arrested for protesting illegally.
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Old 06-30-2010, 03:07 PM   #232 (permalink)
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there's this stupid concrete divider that's still blocking a lane on Reese street by the dome and fucks with my drive getting home. Uhh hello! summit ended few days ago! I should protest that.
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Old 06-30-2010, 03:18 PM   #233 (permalink)
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give me a break. and how is sitting in a park, or a street median like university, or walking through downtown loitering.

i continue to be amazed that you are looking for ways to justify police action to deny people every day liberties within their own city.
"every day"? i really don't see anything "every day" about this scenario.

and isn't "sitting on a street median" the very definition of loitering?

and how do you equate the actions of most of those who were arrested with "sitting on a street median"? you make it sound like they were having a picnic. lol. they were trying to start trouble. that's why they were there.

and they are loving this. they are rejoicing in their "fuck tha police" mentality being embraced by the media.... push them into questionable "civil liberty infringement" territory and then scream bloody murder. "POLICE STATE!!!!!!!"
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Old 06-30-2010, 03:27 PM   #234 (permalink)
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this is every day. there are no extraordinary situations to suspend the constitution except war through the war measures act.

if that's loitering, why arent't they arresting people who eat their lunches there every day? there were indeed many people who were sitting around effectively having a picnic, and they were disbursed, rounded up and arrested. protesting isn't trouble, it's freedom of speech. good lord i can't believe this is even a question.

sure there are idiots loving this, but i am not one. definitely i am not loving this. i am loathing this. don't lump us all together like the police did.
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Old 06-30-2010, 03:27 PM   #235 (permalink)
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that's exactly what they did.

why do you think the police have a right to warn people not to go to a public space?
Why not? They made the announcement for the benefit of the general public (those smart enough to actually care about their own safety that is).

If people chose to deliberately ignore the warnings then what the hell are they complaining about?
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Old 06-30-2010, 03:30 PM   #236 (permalink)
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Why not? They made the announcement for the benefit of the general public (those smart enough to actually care about their own safety that is).

If people chose to deliberately ignore the warnings then what the hell are they complaining about?
so if i ignore a 'warning for my own safety' and choose to enter a public space to make my voice heard on a matter that is of great importance to me, i deserve to be arrested?
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Old 06-30-2010, 03:32 PM   #237 (permalink)
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fucking people.

lets tear down the canadian government.

fire ALL police and have an inquiry, and hell send some to jail.

HOW DARE THEY TRY TO DIFFUSE THAT SITUATION

Huggers all have the call to action.
None have alternatives or a solution.

Hilarity
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Old 06-30-2010, 03:32 PM   #238 (permalink)
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nice job of completely mischaracterizing my point sj. any other straw men you want to set up?
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Old 06-30-2010, 03:33 PM   #239 (permalink)
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so if i ignore a 'warning for my own safety' and choose to enter a public space to make my voice heard on a matter that is of great importance to me, i deserve to be arrested?
Ya.

You do

Especially when the police have good intel that a few of the people mixed in with you might be ready to light a fucking building on fire.

Get out of the fucking way, and if not, don't whine. Never whine. Shut the hell up, when you are momentarily inconvenienced by being detained.

God lord man, stop this. Its embarrassing
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Old 06-30-2010, 03:35 PM   #240 (permalink)
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this is every day. there are no extraordinary situations to suspend the constitution except war through the war measures act.

if that's loitering, why arent't they arresting people who eat their lunches there every day? there were indeed many people who were sitting around effectively having a picnic, and they were disbursed, rounded up and arrested. protesting isn't trouble, it's freedom of speech. good lord i can't believe this is even a question.

sure there are idiots loving this, but i am not one. definitely i am not loving this. i am loathing this. don't lump us all together like the police did.
the constitution was not suspended. it was upheld much more rigidly, though..... since this was a very extraordinary situation.... with legitimate safety concerns.

there were lots of opportunities to protest all week. and they were taken advantage of by thousands. there were opportunities as well on the weekend. those who didn't want to follow the guidelines ran afoul of the authorities. they are not victims of anything except their own foolishness, if you call them victims at all.... because i'm quite sure they got what they were after.
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