Freedom OF Speech
Old 02-17-2015, 01:44 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Should there be any limits to free speech? What is hate speech and can we define it? Should we censor speech in any way? If we decide to censor speech who do we allow to be the arbitrator of censorship? Can we trust said arbitrator to mirror our values on free speech?

I offer up a video on free speech with several speakers on each side of the debate. At the mid way point Christopher Hitchens chimes in on his views on free speech! Complicated subject...Feel Free to chime in!


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Old 02-17-2015, 04:54 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Many excellent points there. But what was important to me is how he refused to be protected from backlash. He keeps his freedom of speech and grants everybody else freedom to talk back at him. And if it gets beyond talk... I lost it there. He has dealt with hostile reaction to his words before, but how?

Went and read up on Hitchens' quotes. He supported every war and invasion US has been a part in. So a brilliant talker, arguable rhetoric and completely hostile view of religions.
Freedom of speech that incites hate and war? No thanks

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Old 02-17-2015, 09:35 AM   #3 (permalink)
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subject to reasonable limits, of course...
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:33 AM   #4 (permalink)
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In lieu of the fairly recent Charlie Hebdo massacre, the debate around free speech is back on the table.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/01...-insult-islam/



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Old 02-17-2015, 11:43 AM   #5 (permalink)
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OK, while that my be the case, I don't think our charter is back on the table. the reasonable limits clause is precisely what adds some sophistication to the canadian take on free speech. yes it is mostly free, but no we don't permit a neo-nazi march through a jewish neighbourhood, and no we do not permit a school teacher to teach students that jews are inherently evil. skokie and keegstra, and all that jazz, ya know?
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Old 02-17-2015, 01:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
OK, while that my be the case, I don't think our charter is back on the table. the reasonable limits clause is precisely what adds some sophistication to the canadian take on free speech. yes it is mostly free, but no we don't permit a neo-nazi march through a jewish neighbourhood, and no we do not permit a school teacher to teach students that jews are inherently evil. skokie and keegstra, and all that jazz, ya know?
Damn you beat me to the punch on keegstra. First thing that popped into my head when I read his post. well done.
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Old 02-17-2015, 02:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I know it's been mentioned before in a different thread but here's an example of how the conservative Harper government has censored government scientists. Does the Canadian government believe in free speech? Or does it only believe in free speech when it supports their political agenda? The guy speaking past the 7min mark sounds like a Harper government shill..."climate change is controversial" What a joke yah it's controversial alright..Only 98% of climate scientists support that human activity, namely the burning of fossil fuels is the primary cause of climate change! The oil sands are fantastic don't ya' know!


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Old 02-17-2015, 06:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Freedom of speech is thought of as a key part of our democracy. But is one person's version of free speech the same as another's? What if an individual disagrees with another's statement? The Agenda explores the boundaries of what you can say, what you can't say, and how the notion of free speech is changing.

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Old 02-19-2015, 07:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Old 02-19-2015, 08:30 PM   #10 (permalink)
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lmao

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Old 02-21-2015, 11:58 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Old 02-28-2015, 04:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I was going to make a new thread, but I'm just going to bring it up here.

I noticed a rise of holocaust denial while watching some youtube documentaries regarding the the holocaust. Aside from the obvious anti-Semitism and radical muslims that wish the death of the jewish people. There are surprisingly those with a legitimate agenda that dig into the historical documents, eyewitness accounts and statistics, etc.

But the question I'm raising is that should we be taking these denial claims seriously?

These people are posting on social networks and youtube, which is a hotspot for the younger generation. As the living eyewitnesses and the generations that suffered directly and indirectly begin to disappear, this new overly skeptical movement begins to take over and I start to worry for many reasons.
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Old 02-28-2015, 05:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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No we shouldn't.
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Old 02-28-2015, 05:49 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Given that education has gone from being strictly in the class room to also largely taking place online, through venues like social media, I would be worried. It's not something to lose your shit over, yet, but we should keep an eye on it.

Free speech is an important pinnacle to society, but also a dangerous one- especially given the manipulative powers of modern technology and information spread. We need to make sure the impressionable younger generations aren't manipulated into learning fallacious, and dangerous ideologies. This is why I'm so in favour of, for example, the Ontario sex ed reform, and why I lose my shit over people saying that certain things should be left to the parents to teach.

I'm sorry, but if you're going to teach your kid that homosexuality is a sin, a choice, and other equally terrifying garbage, then you're setting up the next generation to make the same mistakes as the predecessors. There are certain things the state should have large influence over, and education is one of them, as long as there are processes to keep it in check, and in an advanced democratic society, there are. Good for Wynne.
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Old 02-28-2015, 09:37 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astraeuss View Post
I know it's been mentioned before in a different thread but here's an example of how the conservative Harper government has censored government scientists. Does the Canadian government believe in free speech? Or does it only believe in free speech when it supports their political agenda? The guy speaking past the 7min mark sounds like a Harper government shill..."climate change is controversial" What a joke yah it's controversial alright..Only 98% of climate scientists support that human activity, namely the burning of fossil fuels is the primary cause of climate change! The oil sands are fantastic don't ya' know!
Scientists Speak Out Against Harper Government - YouTube

A War on Science: Muzzled and Mad Scientists - YouTube
I'm cool with Mr. Harper squashing free speech as long as he continues to bribe me with increased monthly payments for having babies.
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Old 03-01-2015, 10:46 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Someguy again View Post
I was going to make a new thread, but I'm just going to bring it up here.

I noticed a rise of holocaust denial while watching some youtube documentaries regarding the the holocaust. Aside from the obvious anti-Semitism and radical muslims that wish the death of the jewish people. There are surprisingly those with a legitimate agenda that dig into the historical documents, eyewitness accounts and statistics, etc.

But the question I'm raising is that should we be taking these denial claims seriously?

These people are posting on social networks and youtube, which is a hotspot for the younger generation. As the living eyewitnesses and the generations that suffered directly and indirectly begin to disappear, this new overly skeptical movement begins to take over and I start to worry for many reasons.
Do I take the Holocaust denial claims seriously? Yes and no, but I also don't believe that we need to go so far as to ban speech tied to holocaust denial. It's a slippery slope, where do bans end? Do we ban drawing cartoons of the prophet Mohamed? Why not ban all denial of every genocide perpetuated by human beings? The road to big brother and the thought police aren't far behind. Holocaust denial should be combated in our institutions such as our schools and universities, the court of public opinion not by our courts of law and police. Do holocaust denial laws curtail denial in any way? The answer is no, nine EU member states currently have laws against Holocaust denial: Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, France, Germany, Lithuania, Poland, Romania and Slovakia. All of these countries have some of the strongest right wing xenophobic parties in the EU. I would also suggest that these laws strengthen those that wish to deny the holocaust giving them the ammunition of being prosecuted and strengthening their resolve.These bans actually feed the flames they are meant to quash.

I want to know what people are thinking and allowing them to vocalize their thoughts allows me and the public at large a forum to combat and debate these insidious ideas. "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know". Don't underestimate the court of public opinion!

As soon as you limit free speech in any way shape or form you no longer have free speech, you have censorship and that's a very slippery slope toward the end of the bedrock of democracy. By limiting free speech for some, in the end you erode your right to freedom of speech.

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Old 03-15-2015, 01:33 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Bill C-51 threatens All Canadians and their right to privacy, freedom of speech and peaceful protest. The road to Big Brother allows the Harper government to become a police state where all our interactions even here on RF can be documented and monitored, is this the kind of society we want? The slippery slope to our gradual loss of freedoms and privacy is at risk if this bill is passed.

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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin




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Old 03-15-2015, 02:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Old 03-15-2015, 10:54 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I really wish I could've been at that march
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Old 03-17-2015, 10:47 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I'm all up for the freedom of speech, but as mentioned in previous examples it can be really dangerous. We see all this anti vaccines movements and things like gmo's are all bad. ''Label it so people can make educated decisions'' (Good luck labeling most of the food in grocery stores as a gmo) The funny thing is that most people don't even know, what the hell they are talking about, but hey some guy on facebook posted a video about it, so they rather believe that video than a scientist or their doctor.
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