The Economic Crisis - Page 2
Old 11-26-2008, 06:54 AM   #21 (permalink)
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We have a better handle on things than they did in the 30's, so that sort of thing won't happen. In the late 20's, men were too preoccupied with lamenting the loss of the flapper, to concern themselves with taking pre-emptive measures with regards to the economy.

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Old 12-12-2008, 09:40 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Wow, the auto bailout collapsed. That's massive.
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:44 AM   #23 (permalink)
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question about the auto bailouts.

Why should they get any money if they make an inferior product / it's known that they won't recover that money in auto sales? Why?

Why not bail out the struggling Thai food place down the street from my house? or the failing used CD store on queen street?

YEah - i know that many people have jobs with auto companies yada yada yada, but at the same time GM / Ford are running a business. If that business is badly run, why should they get free money?
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:49 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Fancy, I agree, but I thought it was going to be a lock honestly.

The auto companies created the mess they're in right now. One simply needs to look at Nissan and how they turned around their fortunes in the late 80s-90s where the accountability was squarely placed on the execs and they WORKED to get it turned around.

Also, the unions here priced themselves out. Much of this was due to the higher wages those who work in the auto companies receive.

I just think it's one more step into the evolution of our economy which will have its negative impacts but positive ones as well.
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:36 PM   #25 (permalink)
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if they want to bail them out they can by the companies. GM's market value is $3 bill and they want $10+ bill, that doesn't work
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:05 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I have no sympathy for these auto companies or unions.

My dad is a skilled machinist (went to college for 4 years in England) and does not make as much money as some of these guys who have no education doing general labour.

My dad also never has a union to back him up or a government thats willing to help HIM out when companies that he has worked for over the years were shutdown in hard economic times via poorly run operations or what have you.

Why are these individuals more important that my dad? My dad pays taxes too.

I hate when they use the excuse of how these companies provide work for so many other companies and the trickle effect....blah blah blah...Same old story but the bottom line is you cannot tell my dad to go fuck himself becuase his job is not important......becuase his inability to provide for his family doesnt matter but someone at ford or chrysler does?

It's time the government starts holding companies accountable for the massive profits they make and misuse that put them into these situations. It's time unions get a grip on reality about how much money they really should expect for nonskilled labour etc...I could go on and on and on but i dont have the time lol.

I do not want to see anyone lose a job or not be able to provide for themselves or there loved ones....I just want to see my own government caring about ALL citizens in whatever industry they are working in.

You bail out auto industry, then you help us IT pro's out when they ship our jobs to India and Far East. You help out all the small fries whose businesses suffer when giants like Walmart move into town.

You cannot have these companies making billions of dollars of profit at the expense of us, the backbone behind canada.
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:11 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Unions are to blame.
The Republicans in the Senate wanted the Unions to cut pay and give up some things but they didn't
The UAW owns a golf course.
They have work banks, 95% pay for doing nothing
After you fired you get 2 years pay for some workers, usually 1 year
workers get blue chip health care
$76 an hour

Go bankrupt, re work contracts. If you want unions you should have competition, why is there 1 auto union for Detroit?

BTW the management of the companies is also to blame because they let all this happen.

And another BTW democrats only want the bill passed because the money will end up going to the unions
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:53 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I thought the American Auto Workers were saying they are going to give the auto industry a 25 dollar per hour cost cut.
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:55 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVS View Post
I thought the American Auto Workers were saying they are going to give the auto industry a 25 dollar per hour cost cut.
They say one thing, they do another
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:06 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TO2988 View Post
They say one thing, they do another
Well I think the Union cost in wage was a part of the Gov't deal. Personally I'd rather see them go bust. I know it would mean really rough times for North America (Ontario would feel a big hit) but hey it would be better in the long run.

We see
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:42 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TO2988 View Post
Unions are to blame.
The Republicans in the Senate wanted the Unions to cut pay and give up some things but they didn't
The UAW owns a golf course.
They have work banks, 95% pay for doing nothing
After you fired you get 2 years pay for some workers, usually 1 year
workers get blue chip health care
$76 an hour

Go bankrupt, re work contracts. If you want unions you should have competition, why is there 1 auto union for Detroit?

BTW the management of the companies is also to blame because they let all this happen.

And another BTW democrats only want the bill passed because the money will end up going to the unions

Not sure that I'd put the blame entirely on the Unions.... bloated upper management with ridiculous salaries, perks and stock options have played a large role in the dissatisfaction of the average worker.

I think that the thing that's most infuriating about these guys is that they just travel from one company to another no matter how badly they've run their last company into the ground. And they do so with HUGE buyout bonuses.
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Old 12-16-2008, 12:22 AM   #32 (permalink)
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It's pensions and older union members that make GM auto workers' wages so high. Compensating for pension difference and union seniority, they make about the same as Toyota/Honda workers.

This is exactly why the pension plan should be nationalized across all auto companies. Or else new car makers get a huge advantage, and older car companies collapse and can no longer pay the pensions.

Derivatives were the culprit, same as in the 20s. http://www.portfolio.com/news-market...l-Streets-Boom

Essentially, a bunch of people were repackaging the mortgages, so investors ended up risking $1,000,000 on a $100,000 mortgage like a giant Ponzi scheme. The ratings companies were all corrupt, and their ratings system didn't account for the possibility that real estate values could fall. OOPS!
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