Does Toronto have an inferiority complex? - Page 2
Old 07-07-2009, 02:38 PM   #21 (permalink)
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anti americanism is getting sickening in Canada, we are no smarter or better then Americans at anything, we share the same values and culture, we are basically the same ppl, but ppl think some imaginary line makes us smarter and better then them. Most of Canada is full of rural hicks no smarter then the Americans everybody seems to make fun of.

Americans know nothing of the world?? Only how to take it over culturally and econimically, perhaps they should have just done it with brute force, slavery and oppression like the enlightened europeans used to do.
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:45 PM   #22 (permalink)
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anti americanism is getting sickening in Canada, we are no smarter or better then Americans at anything, we share the same values and culture, we are basically the same ppl, but ppl think some imaginary line makes us smarter and better then them. Most of Canada is full of rural hicks no smarter then the Americans everybody seems to make fun of.
Its not that simple and some of what you've just said is as ignorant as the other side of the coin you're attacking.
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:47 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Americans know nothing of the world?? Only how to take it over culturally and econimically, perhaps they should have just done it with brute force, slavery and oppression like the enlightened europeans used to do.
Take it over economically? Their economy is in shambles and they will owe trillions of dollars to other countries for decades to come and if it weren't for other countries (Canada included) they would be fucked when it comes oil resources. So as great as America claims to be they are dependant on other countries for money and oil and are too stupburn to try and change a bit in order to turn things around. Canada is nowhere near perfect and anyone who claims that is delusional. But i count myself lucky to be Canadian, and thankful to not be American.
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Old 07-07-2009, 03:03 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Yea because American interests still dont run the world, and havent for years... be thankful we live next to America, or the Canada you seem to love so much would be much different, they enable us to do alot of things just by their presense.

What does that mean "thankful to not be American"?? lol, yea it must be so bad, right?? Silly comment. If you were American, you would be basically the same person you are now, they are thousands of worse places to be then the USA, who was the originator of freedom of religion and basing a country on individual rights. They changed the world, for the better. Now ppl want to make them out to be the worst of the worst. Lets look over Spanish history, English history, German History or w/e you want in europe, all major powers have done some questionable things. The way of the world. Americans are good ppl, i would have a beer and smoke a joint with em anytime

But jeff, im sure american players are dying to join a team where citizens are thankful not to be from the disgusting, ignorant country they are from.... a great selling point to any college kid, clearly.
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Old 07-07-2009, 03:14 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ugo Ferst View Post
... perhaps they should have just done it with brute force, slavery and oppression like the enlightened europeans used to do.
However, we 'enlightened' had fresh drinking water, sewerage systems, 45k spectators stadiums, theatres, over one milion inhabitants citys, libraries and schools more than 2000 years ago.
Culture has it's roots in history.
But i apologize if i had been one of the ignorant.
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Old 07-07-2009, 03:22 PM   #26 (permalink)
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ahhh so many europeans were willing to die to come to America, because europe was so great..... all makes sense now.
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Old 07-07-2009, 03:23 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ugo Ferst View Post
Yea because American interests still dont run the world, and havent for years... be thankful we live next to America, or the Canada you seem to love so much would be much different, they enable us to do alot of things just by their presense.

What does that mean "thankful to not be American"?? lol, yea it must be so bad, right?? Silly comment. If you were American, you would be basically the same person you are now, they are thousands of worse places to be then the USA, who was the originator of freedom of religion and basing a country on individual rights. They changed the world, for the better. Now ppl want to make them out to be the worst of the worst. Lets look over Spanish history, English history, German History or w/e you want in europe, all major powers have done some questionable things. The way of the world. Americans are good ppl, i would have a beer and smoke a joint with em anytime

But jeff, im sure american players are dying to join a team where citizens are thankful not to be from the disgusting, ignorant country they are from.... a great selling point to any college kid, clearly.
Roman empire had freedom of religion and created the base for the modern concept of law. The "diritto romano" is still studied in many university.
Just to let you know about.

American changed the world, for the worste. The capitalist system is failing everywhere.
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Old 07-07-2009, 03:24 PM   #28 (permalink)
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oh yes, the romans treated the jews very nicely, along with the muslims, they all loved them in the middle east and appreciated your hospitality and superior treatment of foreigners. Good thing you saw the light and changed to Christianity for the sole person of keeping control of the world, glad it didnt work or you would really see a messed up world with roman rule.. lol trying to say roman rule is better then american..... yes. freedom to be a slave, sign me up!! freedom to let foreigners dictate the rules of my country, where is caesar when u need him?
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Old 07-07-2009, 03:29 PM   #29 (permalink)
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oh yes, the romans treated the jews very nicely, along with the muslims, they all loved them in the middle east and appreciated your hospitality and superior treatment of foreigners.
When you say "them" you are talking about "us"
But, i think this kind of discussion may take weeks, and i don't think all the others guys here want to hear.
So, you're welcome to keep it on in a private way but about this tread for me is over
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Old 07-07-2009, 04:52 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Americans know nothing of the world?? Only how to take it over culturally and econimically, perhaps they should have just done it with brute force, slavery and oppression like the enlightened europeans used to do.
Umm... what do you call Iraq? Or Afghanistan? Or Pakistan? Or Panama? What about Pinochet? Or the exploitation of Columbia, basically forcing its people to grow cocoa? Or East Timor, where American-trained troops slayed hundreds of people and displaced thousands of others? These are only a few recent examples.

The Europeans were brutal hundreds of years ago, sure. But life back then was a lot more brutal. Read the old English ballads. Nobles raped random women as they pleased. I'm not commending that at all, I'm just saying you can't compare the 20th and 21st centuries to the middle ages, or especially Ancient Rome. Completely different worlds. I'd like to think we should be making progress away from the past...

I was fed the standard American version of history in school. My teacher went as far as to suggest that the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were justified; out of 25 people, only I and another girl disagreed. What does that tell you about American society? And I went to the third-best state school in New Jersey, not some assward state like Arkansas.

Teddy Roosevelt, a president that was glorified in so many respects, summed up American foreign policy better than any other person I've heard: "Walk softly and carry a big stick." Guess what, that still applies. You don't hear about a lot of the atrocities that the US is responsible for, but trust me they are no longer just using "big sticks," which they have replaced with drones, machine guns, and chemicals. And euphemisms and outright propaganda in the media have lulled the public into thinking that US is the "greatest force of good in the world" (as both McCain and Obama called the nation in their debates). The last time I checked, US spends $600 billion on its defense budget. Next two nations are Russia and China. They spend about $50 billion each. Actually, just checking my facts, I found out that Obama wants the defense budget to increase to $775 billion. But we don't read that in the news. We read about how Obama and Medvedev signed a deal to reduce their nuclear stockpiles. USA FTW!

Every country has skeletons in the closet, sure. Some are worse than others. But what pisses me off most is that Americans are so quick to judge other countries when their own government commits atrocities that are just as heinous and terrible as other nations. The people need to wake up and see what's really going on.

Listen, I have nothing against American people as a whole. Sure there are lots of dumbasses and shitbricks, but there are also a plethora of absolutely incredible, intelligent, talented, and understanding people. As is the case with every other country. I just think Americans are by far the most egoistical and the readiest to believe anything that the government says.

Last edited by AR1815; 07-07-2009 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 07-07-2009, 04:56 PM   #31 (permalink)
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By far, the most racist ppl i have ever met, come from european countries, i can say that without a shadow of doubt in my mind, if you want to talk about ppl that think they are the best, that's basically where the whole attitude came from, so i find it ironic europeans are the ones that want to point out egoistism or self centredness, basically, America is just following your example, but i find them much less racist in doing so.

History doesnt really change that much, the powerful always exploit the weak, only problem alot of ppl seem to have is, they arent the powerful anymore, America is, and it sucks not being the one calling the shots.

Either way, i like Americans as a ppl, they have more in common with Canadians then any country by far, and we need to embrace our similarities and stop hating on the very few differences, we need each other.

Last edited by Ugo Ferst; 07-07-2009 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 07-07-2009, 04:58 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
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By far, the most racist ppl i have ever met, come from european countries, i can say that without a shadow of doubt in my mind, if you want to talk about ppl that think they are the best, that's basically where the whole attitude came from, so i find it ironic europeans are the ones that want to point out egoistism or self centredness, basically, America is just following your example, but i find them much less racist in doing so.
a lot of people are racist
arabs are
at least in the U.S. people from the north and the south co exist
I know many north indians that don't like south indians and vice versa
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Old 07-07-2009, 05:01 PM   #33 (permalink)
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well, yes, it's almost human nature to dislike ppl different then yourself, but America didnt go on a mission to assimlate ppl like many european countries did, literally taking out complete races and cultures in the pursuit. Europeans live in the biggest glass house, yet throw the most stones. "It was awhile ago" isnt really a great excuse, why should the ones in power now act nicer to you then you did when you had the power??
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Old 07-07-2009, 05:04 PM   #34 (permalink)
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When did this become a thread about whether the US is a good or evil country?

The question was whether or not Torontonians (or, I would content, Canadians as a whole) have an inferiority complex about the US.

To me, this discussion is proof-positive that we do - regardless of whether the US is a force of good or evil in the world.
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Old 07-07-2009, 05:05 PM   #35 (permalink)
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This is turning into one of the stupidest, most pointless debated i have ever read:

Canada and Europe are the best.
USA is stupid
No, Canada is just as stupid
Europe is evil and racist.
blah blah effing blah.

Jesus H Christ, every culture in the world has had its share of ethically questionable moments. The human race as a whole has had huge lapses of morality pretty much all over the planet. so.... who gives a fuck which side of the atlantic is "better" or whatever.

just call it a draw.
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Old 07-07-2009, 05:06 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
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well, yes, it's almost human nature to dislike ppl different then yourself, but America didnt go on a mission to assimlate ppl like many european countries did, literally taking out complete races and cultures in the pursuit. Europeans live in the biggest glass house, yet throw the most stones. "It was awhile ago" isnt really a great excuse, why should the ones in power now act nicer to you then you did when you had the power??
What about the few examples that I have written about? What are those? "Peacekeeping" operations by the best country in the world?
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Old 07-07-2009, 05:10 PM   #37 (permalink)
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your the same guy that cries when the usa doesnt get invovled in tibet, or bosnia, or whereever, you know.... you cant win em all, you do whats best for you, at the time, they made mistakes, and did things that they thought for w/e reason were in their best interests. Be thankful nations like England and America have been the leaders of the world for the last 100 years or so, we could be much worse off.
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Old 07-07-2009, 05:12 PM   #38 (permalink)
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So... um, how about... uh... basketball... why are there no Thai players in the NBA? When are we going to see a player from Belize? I would love to see an Icelandic basketball player!
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Old 07-07-2009, 05:13 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Although this is a very complex subject, and as Rimpianto stated, this could take a very long time to discuss; I believe that we're ALL to certain degree (depending on a subject) "ignorant", even those who considered them selves highly educated.

At the end of the day, most of us fall back on our personal experiences(knowledge)/beliefs and our own conclusions.

Whit that said, I'm on Ugo's side on this one
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Old 07-07-2009, 05:17 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I'm from the Netherlands and I think Belgium is our Canada.

There is kind of a love-hate relationship there, and also a superiority/inferiority complex.
Sometimes I find their inferiority complex sickening. I can remember many jokes about Belgians in the past (they were always displayed as dumb), but now it's much more common for Belgians to joke about the Dutch in my perception. It's like they're frowning upon us while being envious at the same time while we just think of them as our cute little brother. Sounds familiar?

The Netherlands border two countries, but with Germany it's a totally different dynamics. Different language to begin with and the history of the war made it completely different as welll. Germans can't display any superiority feelings to this day, in all of Europe. They're very humble as a big country due to the sensitivities.

There was hate in the past and it did especially surface when the two nations took on each other in soccer matches. We lost in the World Cup Final to Germany in Germany in 1974 2-1 and that was (is!!!) a major national trauma, but we beat them in 1988 in the semi-finals of the Europeans (in Germany again) in 1988 in the final stages of the game and that pretty much settled the rivalry. We went on to win the title and in a speech before a crazy historic parade through the canals of Amsterdam our national coach Rinus Michels (same one as in 1974) spoke the words: "We all know that the semi-final was the final."



It redeemed the Dutch of our own inferiority complex, by really winning something for the first time and beating the biggest foe in the proces.

The rivalry is not as big these days any more, as has the grudge against Germany faded in general, in all of Europe I think.

Back to Belgium, to draw a sports parallel with the Toronto Raptors.
The past fifteen years or so the soccer landscape in Europe has changed. The rise and expansion of the Champions League went along with several plans for other European leagues. Particularly big clubs in small countries wanted to create a bigger market for themselves so they could compete financially with top clubs from the best competitions.
These plans even involved a possible Belgian/Dutch/Portuguese/Scottish league haha!!!
But of course the possibility of a Belgian-Dutch top league was much more obvious and debated as well. I didn't like it at all.

Sure it involved breaking up our traditional league so that was a huge con for me (my favorite team wouldn't be invited at the time, they sucked then), but I didn't think of it as an attractive concept either. Champion of the Benelux, what is that, you know?

I'm not sure Americans feel the same way about the Raptors franchise, after all it is the World Championship.. but maybe. I know I did at first. Not sure how much that had to do with location or just with getting used to new teams in the league, cause I had the same with OKC and MT. At this point Toronto Raptors is more of a brand to me than any recently relocated team, just because of being there and staying put.

Still, it's possible that Raptors are outcast for being Canadian (don't know, honestly).
Imagine the NBA expands to Mexico, would some of the same things happen?

Anyway, about players. I think you can't fault people for not wanting to emigrate.
That's nothing against Toronto as a city I think. Borders are to a certain extent superficial but a lot of people still want to be 'home' no matter what. Basketballplayers or not.

Kudo's for reading.
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