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-   -   Daniel Tosh Rape "Joke" (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f23/daniel-tosh-rape-joke-23417.html)

thought 07-12-2012 09:39 PM

Daniel Tosh Rape "Joke"
 
Quote:

After I called out to him, Tosh paused for a moment. Then, he says, “Wouldn’t it be funny if that girl got raped by like, 5 guys right now? Like right now? What if a bunch of guys just raped her…” and I, completely stunned and finding it hard to process what was happening but knowing i needed to get out of there, immediately nudged my friend, who was also completely stunned, and we high-tailed it out of there.
Daniel Tosh's rape joke controversy: Club owner speaks out - Viewer Discretion

Belsius 07-12-2012 10:24 PM

How can someone make a big deal out of this after guys like guys like Prior, Hicks, Carlin, Gervais, Chapelle, etc.. have said things 10 times worse.

DVS 07-13-2012 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belsius (Post 669749)
How can someone make a big deal out of this after guys like guys like Prior, Hicks, Carlin, Gervais, Chapelle, etc.. have said things 10 times worse.

because its the 21st century. Remember what happened to Kramer with his "joke". Man even Eddie Murphy's material wouldn't make it in this generation

pzabby 07-13-2012 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVS (Post 669797)
because its the 21st century. Remember what happened to Kramer with his "joke". Man even Eddie Murphy's material wouldn't make it in this generation

what was kramer's joke, now I'm curious.

DVS 07-13-2012 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pzabby (Post 669821)
what was kramer's joke, now I'm curious.

http://www.tshirtwatch.com/blog/wp-c...er-t-shirt.gif

Nothing. Nothing at all

fancylad 07-13-2012 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belsius (Post 669749)
How can someone make a big deal out of this after guys like guys like Prior, Hicks, Carlin, Gervais, Chapelle, etc.. have said things 10 times worse.

i've heard a fair bit of standup from Carlin, Gervais, Chappelle and Prior (not a lot, but a decent enough amount) and i gotta disagree Bel. This was much worse than anything they would have done. seriously a rape joke? It's totally inapropriate on every level. and one actually directed at a woman in the audience? turrible.

and to touch on the Eddie Murphy. Ya lots of his material now would be way offside specifically the gay jokes, but still i don't even think Murphy would have gone with rape jokes back in his day.

LX 07-13-2012 08:47 AM

Dice Clay's material didn't altogether make it in my generation. I might get it if guys like that are doing nothing but impugning and sending up complete dickwads, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Shouldn't a joke be at least remotely funny?

INSIDER 07-13-2012 08:47 AM

I side with the comedians. If its a joke, it's a joke. They can say whatever the hell the want. If you don't like it, don't go to the show. If you're offended by foul language and harsh topics and that is what is in a comedians routine, don't go to the show. Comedians can talk about whatever they want to talk abou in my opinion.
And kramers ordeal wasn't about a joke, it's how he got into it with hecklers.

LX 07-13-2012 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INSIDER (Post 669870)
I side with the comedians. If its a joke, it's a joke. They can say whatever the hell the want. If you don't like it, don't go to the show. If you're offended by foul language and harsh topics and that is what is in a comedians routine, don't go to the show. Comedians can talk about whatever they want to talk abou in my opinion.
And kramers ordeal wasn't about a joke, it's how he got into it with hecklers.

This dude got into it with hecklers as well. And it wasn't a joke. It was just stupid. I find it to be less offensive than just terrible comedy. He says the point was that some things like rape are terrible, but you can still make fun of them. I'm not sure if that's true, and if it is, I think making the attempt off the cuff is bound to fail miserably. It would require a good deal of craft and context.

When I was working at a community radio station I booted a couple of guys off the air for playing a song about gang rape. They placed it in no particular context and just giggled and got off on the whole thing. Violence against woman has just been far too ingrained in our culture. There's no way I can see it as acceptable to do anything but work at undoing that.

I get the feeling that today's culture is all about everything being funny at some level because everything is ultimately meaningless. Everyone's ego is equal to everything else in the universe since everything else can be utterly deflated of meaning. How wonderfully easy, and terrifying. How about putting in the effort to uncover meaning, and allow ourselves to be humbled and egos diminished? No, I guess it's just too much fun to be chimpanzees.

Now I have to admit to being completely out of touch at this point. It could be my age. I heard a call-in on CBC radio of all things, about the Internet site that showed the video of Magnotta's crimes. They asked if such sites should be allowed. I thought it was a ridiculous question. I mean what's next, offering a guy like this his own cable show, or comedy act? And I was stunned at how many called and said they had watched this shit. Some young people watched it with a parent. And the consensus seemed to be that it was ok to have access to it. It left me completely disoriented, and that is where I'm coming from in my response to this.

Windex 07-13-2012 09:45 AM


Belsius 07-13-2012 10:32 AM

Seriously, ricky gervais' latest special has a thousand pedophile jokes are ten times worse.

Dave Chapelle on Michael Jackson. "So he invites him to his house, takes him to the zoo, gives the kid wine, blows him, that sounds like a great host! what is he complaining about!"

Random joke off the top of my head

fancylad 07-13-2012 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belsius (Post 669886)
Dave Chapelle on Michael Jackson. "So he invites him to his house, takes him to the zoo, gives the kid wine, blows him, that sounds like a great host! what is he complaining about!"

that's not worse at all. making fun of the michael jackson or the rapist isn't the same as making fun of the act of rape or a victim of rape. totally different.

I'm not sure about the pedophelia jokes by ricky gervais, but again i would take a guess that he's mocking the pedophile. not the kid.

LX 07-13-2012 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belsius (Post 669886)
Seriously, ricky gervais' latest special has a thousand pedophile jokes are ten times worse.

Dave Chapelle on Michael Jackson. "So he invites him to his house, takes him to the zoo, gives the kid wine, blows him, that sounds like a great host! what is he complaining about!"

Random joke off the top of my head

Yeah - jokes. Now take that subject matter and make it this - wouldn't it be hilarious if that dude in the audience went home and raped his step-son? Maybe he calls up all his drinking buddies and they all have a go at it. Joke?

There's a difference between working around the edges of subject matter and bluntly personalizing it. I've done some offensive shit over the air, and I've always been against censorship, but there does need to be some level of intelligence involved. Some stuff I've done, when I look back, was just lazy and ultimately wrong-headed. Good comedy can be assaulting, but it needs to make the effort to have the audience be an accomplice to some degree. That's where going after hecklers causes problems. It changes that relationship. And that is where I thought Dice Clay failed. He only seemed interested in pulling in guys stuck in adolescence, and saying fuck you to the rest of the world.

I'm not saying this Tosh guy should pay some terrible price. He should not have to cry on Arsenio's couch. It should just be acknowledged that it wasn't funny. It was terrible comedy. It fed into some frat guy's drunken stupidity and nothing else, while pointedly attacking other audience members. The only way rape jokes could succeed would be if everyone were made to question the way violence against women has been woven into our culture. I would say Chappele's joke forces the audience to question the way a celebrity often gets a pass for terrible behavior. He plays on how people would like to see things as opposed to what they really see. There is craft in what he does. And I doubt if Gervais does anything other than undermining those abusing their power, rather than take aim at the powerless.

bjjs 07-13-2012 11:23 AM

LX said all that needs to be said - not off limits in comedy but when you approach something like rape it needs to be approached with tact, skill, and purpose.

The greats almost always had a message behind 80% of what they were trying to say beyond just trying to make people laugh.

He referenced dead baby jokes - of which I retold my fair share back in the day but am smart enough to know they can be incredibly insensitive to the wrong audience. I don't know a lot about him - but he seems like a bit of a hack.

INSIDER 07-13-2012 12:07 PM

daniel tosh is crap. theres no need to defend him whatsoever, and i for one am not defending him. I'm defending comedians in general. if they want to do their routine on rape, baby killing, the holocaust, so be it. they can talk about whatever the hell they want to. its up to the audience whether they want to listen to them or not. and if they are offended, they can leave. simple as that. for this lady to take offense and complain about it is what bugs me. you go to a stand up act, you are subjecting yourself to anything and everything. anything can be talked about. you dont like it, leave.
i'm not saying rape jokes are funny, but who am i to tell a comedian what he can and cannot talk or make jokes about?

Barracuda 07-13-2012 12:12 PM

twitter-divides-in-response-to-daniel-toshs-rape

DVS 07-13-2012 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INSIDER (Post 669940)
daniel tosh is crap. theres no need to defend him whatsoever, and i for one am not defending him. I'm defending comedians in general. if they want to do their routine on rape, baby killing, the holocaust, so be it. they can talk about whatever the hell they want to. its up to the audience whether they want to listen to them or not. and if they are offended, they can leave. simple as that. for this lady to take offense and complain about it is what bugs me. you go to a stand up act, you are subjecting yourself to anything and everything. anything can be talked about. you dont like it, leave.
i'm not saying rape jokes are funny, but who am i to tell a comedian what he can and cannot talk or make jokes about?

Thats the problem with today though. Decisions are no longer made by the individual. Its how the internet community react to it on twitter, you tube, facebook etc. etc. Its getting harder and harder for comedians to test boundaries on audinces. Reasons we will never see a genius like Bill Hicks again.

Superjudge 07-13-2012 12:18 PM

its interesting. they are only just being clever, or shocking, but the content is still bad, and offensive, making the comedian an asshole.

But, guys, Is that not what they audience signed up for?
And the other people, they are offended after the fact? fuck um, they weren't there at the show.

Belsius 07-13-2012 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fancylad (Post 669888)
that's not worse at all. making fun of the michael jackson or the rapist isn't the same as making fun of the act of rape or a victim of rape. totally different.

I'm not sure about the pedophelia jokes by ricky gervais, but again i would take a guess that he's mocking the pedophile. not the kid.

Theres no way around it. All this guys have made insensitive jokes about touchy subjects with no remorse. Gervais laughs as the whole thing. They makes jokes out of the most unconfortables situations of humanity. Bill Hicks work in particular was insanely offensive. I have never seen anything that made people feel as uncomfortable.

The fact that most of Tosh's work sucks should not be relevant. If comedians, who are the only people that can say whatever they want have to be politically correct now, we are fucked.


Superjudge 07-13-2012 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 669890)
Yeah - jokes. Now take that subject matter and make it this - wouldn't it be hilarious if that dude in the audience went home and raped his step-son? Maybe he calls up all his drinking buddies and they all have a go at it. Joke?

There's a difference between working around the edges of subject matter and bluntly personalizing it. I've done some offensive shit over the air, and I've always been against censorship, but there does need to be some level of intelligence involved. Some stuff I've done, when I look back, was just lazy and ultimately wrong-headed. Good comedy can be assaulting, but it needs to make the effort to have the audience be an accomplice to some degree. That's where going after hecklers causes problems. It changes that relationship. And that is where I thought Dice Clay failed. He only seemed interested in pulling in guys stuck in adolescence, and saying fuck you to the rest of the world.

I'm not saying this Tosh guy should pay some terrible price. He should not have to cry on Arsenio's couch. It should just be acknowledged that it wasn't funny. It was terrible comedy. It fed into some frat guy's drunken stupidity and nothing else, while pointedly attacking other audience members. The only way rape jokes could succeed would be if everyone were made to question the way violence against women has been woven into our culture. I would say Chappele's joke forces the audience to question the way a celebrity often gets a pass for terrible behavior. He plays on how people would like to see things as opposed to what they really see. There is craft in what he does. And I doubt if Gervais does anything other than undermining those abusing their power, rather than take aim at the powerless.

What if 80% of his crowd was affected and shocked and either chuckled or laughed. is it still bad comedy? Was his crowd subjected to anything out of the context of what they expect and a Tosh show?


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