CLIMATEGATE!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Page 5
Old 11-26-2009, 04:11 PM   #81 (permalink)
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It sounds like what they've done is unlawful, its been planned and executed between multiple players in secret. Sounds like an actual conspiracy. To be able to manipulate everyone on such a level is very troubling.
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Old 11-26-2009, 04:21 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Old 11-27-2009, 07:53 PM   #83 (permalink)
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YouTube - Climategate: Dr. Tim Ball on the hacked CRU emails

It sounds like what they've done is unlawful, its been planned and executed between multiple players in secret. Sounds like an actual conspiracy. To be able to manipulate everyone on such a level is very troubling.

Ugh. Look at both sides when considering the sources of information. Dr. Ball is a paid lecturer for Oil companies. He was one of the main scumbags profiled in the Fifth Estate's documentary called the "Denial Machine." Ball has connections to think tanks that accept money from the Tabacco companies as well. Yeah, he has no agenda at all. *huge amount of sarcasm* Dude gets paid to bullshit.

Tim Ball is a former professor at the University of Winnipeg. Most of his former colleagues think he is a total joke. I know because I have spoken with some of them. This guy had tenor before it became apparent what douche he is/was. He believes in all kinds of international conspiracy junk. He has made quite a bit of dough peddling theories to people. When some of the more moderate voices come out and say they actually believe this is a conspiracy, I will take it more seriously. So far it's all the usual suspects making a fuss. I expect a guy like Ball to say this shit, he's been denying global warming for years. If he didn't say anything, that would be a story.
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Old 11-27-2009, 08:23 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Look, everybody, "The Fifth Estate" on CBC did an interesting episode on the rhetorical battle over climate change. I would encourage everybody, regardless of your views on this issue, to check out the story. No matter which side of the debate you're on, you will learn something from wathcing this episode.

Link:

Denial Machine - Fifth Estate
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Old 11-28-2009, 05:10 AM   #85 (permalink)
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Personally, I don't understand why people strain themselves with potentially pseudo data and notions that are so external to them. For example, I can peruse at an outline of the solar system, but can I form a concrete acceptance of Saturn's coordinates in relation Jupiter without actually experiencing said example first hand? Not concretely IMO, I have to trust the bond of science and therefore, I have to trust something not of my own discernment.

Science, regarding the unyielding evidence of global warming, or lack there of for that matter, is basically just trusting the bond of some guys who potentially fabricated some bull shit.

This idiosyncratic, skeptical method of thinking comes in handy to cope with being a Raps fan. Anyway, here's a funny video of George Carlin.

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Old 12-04-2009, 02:56 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Former Vice President Al Gore on Thursday abruptly canceled a Dec. 16 personal appearance that was to be staged during the United Nations' Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen
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the multimedia public event to promote Mr. Gore's new book, "Our Choice," included $1,209 VIP tickets that granted the holder a photo opportunity with Mr. Gore and a "light snack."
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"We have had a clear-cut agreement, and it is unusual with great disappointment that we have to announce that Al Gore cancels. We had a huge expectation for the event. . . . We do not yet know the detailed reasons for the cancellation," said Lisbeth Knudsen, CEO of Berlingske Media, in a statement posted by the company.
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Pajamas Media founder Roger L. Simon and independent filmmaker Lionel Chetwynd -- both members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences and Oscar nominees -- have called on the academy to rescind Mr. Gore's Oscars in light of the Climategate revelations.
Gore cancels climate conference event - Washington Times

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He's made more than $100 million on his global warming scam, so I guess he isn't too dumb. It'll catch up with him some day. What goes around comes around. They finally got Bernie Madoff. -- Mike Stueland
Gore pushes 'global warming scam'
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Old 12-04-2009, 06:03 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Don't worry they still love Al Gore for some reason, their minds got hijacked or something.
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Old 12-04-2009, 06:08 PM   #88 (permalink)
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he's our last line of defense against manbearpig. for cereal...

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Old 12-04-2009, 06:51 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Ugh. You know, Al Gore can be a gigantic douche without man made global warming being a fraud. Both things can be true. Al Gore is indeed a gigantic douche. Man made global warming is occuring. The same can be said about the extreme doom and gloom theories. The extreme doom and gloom shit can be exagerated without everything being a lie. Maybe I already said that in my first post in this thread. Whatever.

P.S.

That episode of South Park was so awesome. And I'm totally being cereal. After that, Cartman will probably never shit right again.
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Old 12-04-2009, 09:24 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Here's the thing - if this becomes a political issue in any way, then those that want to shut it down win the game.

How they will celebrate would be an interesting thing to see. Probably by pumping money into starting a colony on Mars.
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Old 12-04-2009, 09:26 PM   #91 (permalink)
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IS GLOBAL warming a trick? That is what some saw in a huge batch of e-mails and documents taken from the servers of the Climate Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia, in England, and put up anonymously on the web. The result has been a field day for those sceptical of the idea of man-made climate change, who have combed through them, pouncing and pronouncing on snippets that seem to show scientific malfeasance.

The CRU specialises in studies of climates past. For parts of the past where there were no thermometers to consult, such studies use proxy data, such as tree rings. Reconstructions based on these tend to show that the planet’s temperature has risen over the 20th century to heights unprecedented for centuries and perhaps millennia. They are far from the only evidence for believing in climate change as a man-made problem, but they are important, and the sharp uptick they show has taken on iconic value. A tree-ring reconstruction known as the “hockey stick”, which shows unprecedented 20th-century warming, has been a particular target of criticism by sceptics. It was published in 1998 by Michael Mann (then at Yale, now at Pennsylvania State University) and his colleagues, and featured prominently in the 2001 report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

Hence the eagerness with which bloggers fell on one of the stolen e-mails, sent in 1999 by Phil Jones, the CRU’s director: “I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.” Trickery associated with Dr Mann was catnip to the sceptics. But Dr Jones has clarified that “The word trick was used here colloquially as in a clever thing to do. It is ludicrous to suggest that it refers to anything untoward.” The “hiding” concerned the decision to leave out a set of tree-ring-growth data that had stopped reflecting local temperature changes. That alteration in growth pattern is strange, and unexplained, but eliminating it is not sinister.
Climate change: Mail-strom | The Economist
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:33 PM   #92 (permalink)
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Thanks for the link, Trane. A great read and a well balanced article.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:47 PM   #93 (permalink)
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The problem with the scientists has to be looked at, and of course is unacceptable, but it's taken out of the context of thousands of emails entirely, shows nothing new, and gives Saudi Arabia the chance to already, predictably, cop out of what needs to be done by all nations.

It's a human problem that shouldn't require perfect behavior from scientists. It actually requires that leaders around the world put any kind of political advantages or disadvantages aside. But it's easy for me to say. Both the bad behavior of scientists, and the failure of leaders to come together to tackle a long-term problem with likely short-term political losses at hand, owes very much to all the money and efforts that the kings of Saud and all their backers, not to mention those who gain from our own tar sands riches from hell, throw at this thing to prevent change. It's entirely outrageous, insane, a crime against future generations, and yet it works.

The tobacco companies must be shaking their heads wondering why they didn't make claims that cancer didn't exist. It is actually something that is very difficult to provide definitive evidence of. They blew their chance. They could have made a few scientists look like monkeys. And they would only be killing the current generation. In relative terms they should have been able to sleep soundly.

Last edited by LX; 12-04-2009 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:56 PM   #94 (permalink)
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lol I think pinky and the Brain are getting closer to their goal.

Only the Brain is a lot more ugly than expected and has no hair





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Old 12-05-2009, 01:46 AM   #95 (permalink)
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BECK: There's always been — there's always been full knowledge. There is — there are billions of not trillions of dollars to be made on this.

GOLDBERG: That's right.

BECK: A hundred and forty-five trillion is what is going to cost, their solution, trillions of dollars at stake. So, somebody is making money off of this.

GOLDBERG: That's right and for years, anyone who criticized global warming was accused of being bought and paid for by the polluting industry and whatnot, while these enlightened, objective scientists, you know, were beyond reproach.
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GOLDBERG: And by definition, if you were a scientist, you ought to agree with it.

But there are companies, like G.E., that have literally billions of dollars at stake, could go under if we don't get something like cap-and-trade to pass

BECK: OK.

GOLDBERG: And they are always considered benign and progressive when they talk about global warming.

BECK: OK. So, here we have — here we have scientists cooking the books, changing the research, changing the numbers, changing the actual temperatures, discrediting people in e-mails, saying how do we discredit them, how do we make them go away, et cetera, et cetera — you have.

GOLDBERG: And getting people fired.

BECK: Yes.

GOLDBERG: Truly, they got people fired for coming up with contrary evidence that they didn't like to hear.
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BECK: I mean, faking numbers, discrediting people, getting them fired, cooking the books — is that what where science is supposed to be?

GOLDBERG: For the last eight years, we heard that whenever George Bush did something that ran against the grain of the progressive tide, that there was a war on science— that Republicans and the right despise science.

And here we are seeing a lot of people who clearly don't care first and foremost about the science. They care first and foremost about the agenda and how to frame the agenda. And if science gets in their way, then you're going to shoot the messenger.

BECK: OK.

GOLDBERG: And it's a huge indictment.
Glenn Beck: What Separates Climate-Gate From Other Conspiracies? - Glenn Beck - FOXNews.com
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Old 12-05-2009, 01:52 AM   #96 (permalink)
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Nearly two weeks since news broke of the e-mail scandal, climate change skeptics have gloated; a leading climate scientist has resigned; at least one U.S. lawmaker has called for an investigation, and countless prominent news outlets have deemed the story worthy of major reporting.

Still, according to a report Wednesday morning by the conservative Media Research Center, "none of the broadcast network weekday morning and evening news shows addressed Climate-Gate or the incriminating Jones development. ... This marked 12 days since the information was first uncovered that they have ignored this global scandal."
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"An examination of morning and evening news programs on ABC, CBS and NBC since Nov. 20 yielded zero mentions of the scandal, even in the Nov. 25 reports about Obama going to Copenhagen to discuss the need for emissions reductions," the Institute reported Wednesday.
Comedy Central Scoops Network News on Climate-Gate Scandal - Science News | Science & Technology | Technology News - FOXNews.com

One would think that responsible broadcasters would be covering one of the biggest stories in the world right now. One would think this was bigger than how big of an idiot Tiger Woods is being. Why would most of the mainstream media ignore such a story. It makes no sense.
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:00 AM   #97 (permalink)
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The Climate-Gate scandal continues to grow in scope and in intensity. Climate-Gate is already starting to exact its first casualties, even while President Obama makes plans to attend the Copenhagen Climate Change summit.

John Lott, the author of Freedomnomics, writes how the hacked climate-gate emails show a systematic campaign to suppress any hint of dissent from the idea of human caused global warming. "Upset that the editor of

Geophysical Research Letters, Jim Saiers, and the Climate Research had published research that questioned man-made global warming, these e-mails reveal an attempt to remove Saiers as editor, prevent others from publishing in these journals or citing their work, and, even worse, exclude work critical of the man-made global warming theory from being cited by the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change."

Phil Jones, the director of the University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit and one of the people at the center of the climate-gate scandal, has been forced to step down "temporarily" pending an investigation of his actions. Michael Mann, a Penn State climate researcher who is also involved in the climate-gate scandal, is also under investigation.

Meanwhile the Australian Parliament has voted down a version of cap and trade legislation that before the climate-gate scandal was expected to pass. John Delingpole, writing for the Telegraph, speculates that British Conservative Party Leader David Cameron, a believer in human caused global warming and a warm supporter of restrictions in carbon emissions, may become a casualty.

Legal actions against the University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit by independent scientists are in the works.
Cimate-Gate Scandal Continues to Spread - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:06 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Wow - a noted nutjob, and a website that asks people to sign up to provide content. We are talking hard news for sure. Who needs decades-worth of peer reviewed articles in scientific journals, when you've got that kind of credibility denying it all?
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:09 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Oh - and Apollo - you Dr. Tim Ball guy. Really credible as well. Does credibility matter to you at all when you go on about "one of the biggest stories in the world"?

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Dr. Timothy Ball is Chairman and Chair of the Scientific Advisory Committee of the Natural Resources Stewardship Project (NRSP).[1] Two of the three directors of the NRSP - Timothy Egan and Julio Lagos - are executives with the PR and lobbying company, the High Park Group (HPG).[2] Both HPG and Egan and Lagos work for energy industry clients and companies on energy policy.[3]
Ball is a Canadian climate change skeptic and was previously a "scientific advisor" to the oil industry-backed organization, Friends of Science.[4] Ball is a member of the Board of Research Advisors of the Frontier Centre for Public Policy, a Canadian free-market think tank which is predominantly funded by foundations and corporations.[5]
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Tim_Ball
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Old 12-05-2009, 08:29 PM   #100 (permalink)
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LX, I'm with you regarding Tim Ball. The guy is a total joke.

Apollo, the mainstream media is not ignoring this story. Canadian and European print and television media are covering this story. I've seen it discussed on several channels, and read about it on/in various sites/papers. You must be talking about American media. Since when do people take American media seriously? It is all about ratings. Fox, MSNBC, CNN...it's almost always pure shit. Even the Fox stuff you cited has a spin. They are somewhat disingenuous in their paraphrasing of Stewart's show. Glenn Beck and the other talk radio bafoons are not reliable sources of information. Neither are sites like PrisonPlanet...etc..

Listen, like I said to Benzo, not all journalism out there is crap. The CBC is not perfect, but it does follow ethical guidelines of professional journalism better than almost any media outlet, and it does cover stories that are significant. I will admit that this story is more important than I thougt it was when Benzo first raised it. But what pisses me off, is that many people won't see why a lot of this deceit is taking place. It's not because global warming is a hoax, but rather because of all the politics and propaganda from both sides.

These emails do reveal scientists behaving like douches, but they do not debunk global warming. The evidence for global warming goes beyond the hockey stick graph and the other shit mentioned in these emails. Again, as I mentioned to Benzo, there may be disputes over aspects of global warming, but most credible scientists acknowledge it is happening. There is a difference between contesting aspects of a theory, and being skeptical about the whole thing. A scientist can dispute some of the doom and gloom predictive claims without denying global warming as a whole. In fact, I believe I stated in this thread that I'm not sure that all of the predictions are accurate, since there is so much potential for variability, and the computer models being used are limited technology, some of which I don't even understand. These emails suggest that there needs to be more honest dialogue, and certain scientists need to stop acting like douches. But global warming is occuring. What will be the outcome? Only time can say for certain. But, again, from my perspective, based on my basic knowledge, I don't want to roll the fucking dice. I'd rather take SOME preemptive steps to adjust our culture/economy rather than POTENTIALLY getting seriously fucked in 60 years.
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