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-   -   City on Strike (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f23/city-strike-8433.html)

Raptorman 06-22-2009 11:18 AM

City on Strike
 
I have to admit, I am the last person to ask about politics.

Obviously the strike will affect garbage collection that will pile up quickly.

I run a softball league and play in another. The permits are canceled.

Someone persuade me to take a side. I see unions driving up the prices of salaries and making the jobs obsolete (car union) , but I am not ready to trust the city that they are working in my best interest.

Anyone have any inside info on whats going on?

jeffb 06-22-2009 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptorman (Post 196143)
I have to admit, I am the last person to ask about politics.

Obviously the strike will affect garbage collection that will pile up quickly.

I run a softball league and play in another. The permits are canceled.

Someone persuade me to take a side. I see unions driving up the prices of salaries and making the jobs obsolete (car union) , but I am not ready to trust the city that they are working in my best interest.

Anyone have any inside info on whats going on?

I play softball, i guess that means i ain't playing tonight?? :confused2:

Windex 06-22-2009 11:25 AM

anyone here on strike?

don't let me start on those unions

things will be a lot better when I'm Mayor :yeah:

MangoKidHoops 06-22-2009 11:35 AM

Let's not forget that the LCBO could be on strike Wednesday at midnight.

'trane 06-22-2009 11:40 AM

as some of you know, i have my first baby due in about a week and a half. my house is also under renovation, albeit just one floor. we were on track to have everything ready for the arrival, and our final plumbing inspection was to be last friday. problem is, the inspector never showed up and didn't return my calls. now he's on strike, and i can't close up the walls or the gigantic hole in my basement floor until he comes back and gives the approval on the plumbing and lets to move forward with the project. so i will be bringing a newborn home to a situation where there is dirt everywhere, construction supplies in the rooms and hallways, no laundry and exposed pipes running through my bedroom. and to top it off, once the strike is over, contractors will again return to my house to finish the job, sand drywall and make an absolute mess while my wife is there breastfeeding our child.

needless to say, this strike comes at a pretty bad time for me.

the other big part of this is all of the summer camps and day programs run by the city that parents rely on. there are a great many people living around the poverty line that cannot afford child care and depend on these services. now many of them are being forced to take leave from work (when available) and/or quit and face the economic impacts of that during a recession because they have no places to send their children for the day. these are the real casualties of this strike.

this is about so much more than garbage.

now here's my take:

the association for independent businesses cried foul last week talking about public-sector benefits and vacation packages that the private sector can't even dream of. well, the other side of that story is that organizations like the city and like non-profits cannot possibly offer salaries like those in the private sector (except for a few senior politicians and very long-term beaurocrats at the city). instead of salary, they offer concessions on things like benefits, vacation, sick time, etc. it's all they can offer, really, as a means of compensating their employees.

sometime in the past, a negotiation was made about sick time accumulation and cashouts. this was a horrendous mistake by the city because it's an unfunded and entirely unpredictable liability that makes budgeting and future sustainability a near impossibility. i see why they want to get rid of it. but the union negotiated it. it is part of their cba, their income and their futures. i assume that many of them plan on using that money for their retirements, and i'd be right pissed off if i was in the union and my employer planned to take it away. i assume that the city must be proposing a system to grandfather that plan out, but still, the point of collectivity is to band together to help all of the membership, not just the senior members.

so i see why they are miles apart. both have good points. whether or not an entitlement like that is reasonable, it is part of the cba, and no union wants to walk away from bargaining and lose a significant income source. if mayor miller wants to right this ship, he needs to either find a counter-balancing proposal or legislate the workers back to the job and face a serious firestorm of a battle over this issue.

i want this over more than the average person, but i totally understand why both sides have dug in their heels. i just hope my baby doesn't mind a little dust and noise.

jeffb 06-22-2009 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MangoKidHoops (Post 196163)
Let's not forget that the LCBO could be on strike Wednesday at midnight.

That sucks for them. Good thing i don't drink.

MangoKidHoops 06-22-2009 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 196169)
That sucks for them. Good thing i don't drink.

Sucks for who? The LCBO? More like sucks for the public. There's gonna be massive lines on Tuesday.

jeffb 06-22-2009 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MangoKidHoops (Post 196191)
Sucks for who? The LCBO? More like sucks for the public. There's gonna be massive lines on Tuesday.

Sucks for everyone that's effected.

Formless 06-22-2009 12:13 PM

OPSEU goin' on strike again? Wee, maybe we'll have another parade this time.

Aar_Canada 06-22-2009 12:26 PM

I'm glad the LCBO workers are going on strike. Maybe now that portion of the public who inexplicably defends the whole concept will realize how ridiculous it is and how convenient it would be to have liquor and wine available in grocery and corner stores. Only in Ontario would a workers strike make a whole type of product unavailable. And what are the alcoholics going to do?

'trane 06-22-2009 12:28 PM

wrong aar. this is about government revenue. the lcbo is the biggest revenue source besides taxes for the prov gov't. no way they are giving that up, and no way they should. the quality of service and breadth of product delivery is much better from the lcbo than we would get from independent businesses. i support the lcbo 100%. probably my favourite place to shop.

Belsius 06-22-2009 12:32 PM

Canada, on strike!




























sorry, I had too:o

INSIDER 06-22-2009 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'trane (Post 196237)
i support the lcbo 100%. probably my favourite place to shop.

thats because you're a drunken bastard.
i kid, i kid... i love LCBO too, they do a great job and have great selection... it makes my life so much easier.

speaking of strikes, supposedly in Windsor, they have had a garbage strike for 10 weeks!!!
holy crap... imagine 10 weeks of garbage piling up everywhere? that is insane. i hope we're not in for this type of disaster.

Aar_Canada 06-22-2009 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'trane (Post 196237)
wrong aar. this is about government revenue. the lcbo is the biggest revenue source besides taxes for the prov gov't. no way they are giving that up, and no way they should. the quality of service and breadth of product delivery is much better from the lcbo than we would get from independent businesses. i support the lcbo 100%. probably my favourite place to shop.


I know what it's about but your view is what my point is about. You and others think that if that shithole ceased to be, gone would be your high quality drink and that's a ridiculous fear. You'd have your 'low-end product' available in convenience stores and boutique shops would open up with all your over-priced favourites. It's like that all over the world. Who cares if it weren't all under one roof?

So yeah, at it's core, it's a huge money maker for the province but it's unfair and defended by people who basically reiterate, word for word, the LCBO's argument.

'trane 06-22-2009 01:00 PM

that's because it's a good argument.

i don't want to travel to several different shops to get products at different price points. that's senseless. the product delivery is good, and the 'overpriced' comment is plain wrong. in a sense, i suppose, all booze in ontario is over-priced, but that's a matter of taxation and thus a different issue (which we could also discuss). as for paying more for the premium products, that's no different than any other product - cars, food, houses, fertilizer - things that are craft-produced with an attention to detail, tradition and standards tend to cost more. i pay that for booze and food because i think the marginal utility is worth it. i don't for cars becasue i don't really care what i drive as long as it works and gets me where i need to go.

but this is all beside the point. the revenue for our gov't is a good thing because it pays for public expenditures that we all enjoy. i like taxes, and i like my gov't making money. it's how they spend it that i have more of an argument with. on top of this, the monopoly ensures better control of a substance that i think should be controlled. i think that's a good thing.

and they deliver excellent service and a great product. how could the lcbo possibly be classified as a shithole just because you wish there was a depanneur shelling out crap for cheap at the end of your block?

Windex 06-22-2009 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'trane (Post 196277)

i like taxes

really?

'trane 06-22-2009 01:11 PM

yep. they pay for my roads and schools and healthcare and infrastructure and public spaces and street lights, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc... this city/province/country is bigger than my personal bank account, and i understand the necessaity of my participation in it.

jeffb 06-22-2009 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'trane (Post 196289)
yep. they pay for my roads and schools and healthcare and infrastructure and public spaces and street lights, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc... this city/province/country is bigger than my personal bank account, and i understand the necessaity of my participation in it.

All true, and of course it's a necessity.....but paying taxes blows.

Claudius 06-22-2009 01:19 PM

I dunno, I'm with 'trane. Paying taxes is fine. How it's spent is another matter.

'trane 06-22-2009 01:20 PM

i want it, but i don't want to have to pay for it either. solid point jeff. :face4:

i actually enjoy paying taxes, and i mean that. every time i see the number i think about how my parents were able to get treatment when they were sick, or how a broken arm doesn't cost me $500, or how my wife will deliver a baby next week and have great care, or how i had a fantastic education for next to nothing. these are good things.


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