Bin Laden is Dead - Page 4
Old 05-02-2011, 11:40 AM   #61 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Captain Ding Dong
 
Aar_Canada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St.Catharines
Posts: 4,924
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
what lunacy will they further with the world's most famous martyr as the figurehead?

it's madness either way.
As Peter Bergen said last night and again today, these followers swore a personal oath to Bin Laden. I hate Hitler comparisons, but it was the same with Hitler. When Hitler died, so did Nazism. When so much of the substance of party, organization, group is tied up in a charismatic leader, once that leader's gone, so much is lost. Lop the head off the body and the body dies. Completely? No, but still. Bring him to trial and allow him to spew his hatred and put out his calls for action? Not a good idea, in my opinion. He admitted what he'd done, the end.
Aar_Canada is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 11:41 AM   #62 (permalink)
Is playing the dude disguised as another dude

Moderator

 
Shadowfax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: 5th Dimension
Posts: 10,041
Representing:
Default

George J. Strauch, Jr.
Edward T. Strauss
Steven R. Strauss
Steven F. Strobert
Walwyn W. Stuart, Jr.
Benjamin Suarez
David Scott Suarez
Ramon Suarez
Yoichi Sugiyama
William Christopher Sugra
Daniel Suhr
David Marc Sullins
Christopher P. Sullivan
Patrick Sullivan
Thomas Sullivan
Hilario Soriano Sumaya, Jr.
James Joseph Suozzo
Colleen Supinski
Robert Sutcliffe
Seline Sutter
Claudia Suzette Sutton
John Francis Swaine
Kristine M. Swearson
Brian Edward Sweeney
Kenneth J. Swenson
Thomas Swift
Derek Ogilvie Sword
Kevin Thomas Szocik
Gina Sztejnberg
Norbert P. Szurkowski
Harry Taback
Joann Tabeek
Norma C. Taddei
Michael Taddonio
Keiichiro Takahashi
Keiji Takahashi
Phyllis Gail Talbot
Robert Talhami
Sean Patrick Tallon
Paul Talty
Maurita Tam
Rachel Tamares
Hector Tamayo
Michael Andrew Tamuccio
Kenichiro Tanaka
Rhondelle Cheri Tankard
Michael Anthony Tanner
Dennis Gerard Taormina, Jr.
Kenneth Joseph Tarantino
Allan Tarasiewicz
Ronald Tartaro
Darryl Anthony Taylor
Donnie Brooks Taylor
Lorisa Ceylon Taylor
Michael Morgan Taylor
Paul A. Tegtmeier
Yeshauant Tembe
Anthony Tempesta
Dorothy Pearl Temple
Stanley Temple
David Tengelin
Brian John Terrenzi
Lisa M. Terry
Shell Tester
Goumatie T. Thackurdeen
Sumati Thakur
Harshad Sham Thatte
Thomas F. Theurkauf, Jr.
Lesley Anne Thomas
Brian Thomas Thompson
Clive Thompson
Glenn Thompson
Nigel Bruce Thompson
Perry A. Thompson
Vanavah Alexei Thompson
William H. Thompson
Eric Raymond Thorpe
Nichola Angela Thorpe
Sal Edward Tieri, Jr.
John p Tierney
Mary Ellen Tiesi
William R. Tieste
Kenneth Francis Tietjen
Stephen Edward Tighe
Scott Charles Timmes
Michael E. Tinley
Jennifer M. Tino
Robert Frank Tipaldi
John James Tipping II
David Tirado
Hector Luis Tirado, Jr.
Michelle Lee Titolo
John J. Tobin
Richard Todisco
Vladimir Tomasevic
Stephen Kevin Tompsett
Thomas Tong
Doris Torres
Luis Eduardo Torres
Amy Elizabeth Toyen
Christopher Michael Traina
Daniel Patrick Trant
Abdoul Karim Traore
Glenn J. Travers
Walter Philip Travers
Felicia Y. Traylor-Bass
Lisa L. Trerotola
Karamo Trerra
Michael Angel Trinidad
Francis Joseph Trombino
Gregory James Trost
William P. Tselepis
Zhanetta Valentinovna Tsoy
Michael Tucker
Lance Richard Tumulty
Ching Ping Tung
Simon James Turner
Donald Joseph Tuzio
Robert T. Twomey
Jennifer Tzemis
John G. Ueltzhoeffer
Tyler V. Ugolyn
Michael A. Uliano
Jonathan J. Uman
Anil Shivhari Umarkar
Allen V. Upton
Diane Marie Urban
John Damien Vaccacio
Bradley Hodges Vadas
Renuta Vaidea
William Valcarcel
Felix Antonio Vale
Ivan Vale
Benito Valentin
Santos Valentin, Jr.
Carlton Francis Valvo II
Erica H. Van Acker
Kenneth W. Van Auken
Richard B. Van Hine
Daniel M. Van Laere
Edward Raymond Vanacore
Jon C. Vandevander
Barrett Vanvelzer, 4
Edward Vanvelzer
Paul Herman Vanvelzer
Frederick Thomas Varacchi
Gopalakrishnan Varadhan
David Vargas
Scott C. Vasel
Azael Ismael Vasquez
Arcangel Vazquez
Santos Vazquez
Peter Anthony Vega
Sankara S. Velamuri
Jorge Velazquez
Lawrence G. Veling
Anthony Mark Ventura
David Vera
Loretta Ann Vero
Christopher James Vialonga
Matthew Gilbert Vianna
Robert Anthony Vicario
Celeste Torres Victoria
Joanna Vidal
John T. Vigiano II
Joseph Vincent Vigiano
Frank J. Vignola, Jr.
Joseph Barry Vilardo
Sergio Villanueva
Chantal Vincelli
Melissa Vincent
Francine Ann Virgilio
Lawrence Virgilio
Joseph Gerard Visciano
Joshua S. Vitale
Maria Percoco Vola
Lynette D. Vosges
Garo H. Voskerijian
Alfred Vukosa
Gregory Kamal Bruno Wachtler
Gabriela Waisman
Courtney Wainsworth Walcott
Victor Wald
Benjamin James Walker
Glen Wall
Mitchel Scott Wallace
Peter Guyder Wallace
Robert Francis Wallace
Roy Michael Wallace
Jeanmarie Wallendorf
Matthew Blake Wallens
John Wallice, Jr.
Barbara P. Walsh
James Henry Walsh
Jeffrey P. Walz
Ching Wang
Weibin Wang
Michael Warchola
Stephen Gordon Ward
James Arthur Waring
Brian G. Warner
Derrick Washington
Charles Waters
James Thomas Waters, Jr.
Patrick J. Waters
Kenneth Thomas Watson
Michael Henry Waye
Todd Christopher Weaver
Walter Edward Weaver
Nathaniel Webb
Dinah Webster
Joanne Flora Weil
Michael T. Weinberg
Steven Weinberg
Scott Jeffrey Weingard
Steven George Weinstein
Simon Weiser
David M. Weiss
David Thomas Weiss
Vincent Michael Wells
Timothy Matthew Welty
Christian Hans Rudolf Wemmers
Ssu-Hui Wen
Oleh D. Wengerchuk
Peter M. West
Whitfield West, Jr.
Meredith Lynn Whalen
Eugene Whelan
Adam S. White
Edward James White III
James Patrick White
John Sylvester White
Kenneth Wilburn White, Jr.
Leonard Anthony White
Malissa Y. White
Wayne White
Leanne Marie Whiteside
Mark P. Whitford
Michael T. Wholey
Mary Catherine Wieman
Jeffrey David Wiener
Wilham J. Wik
Alison Marie Wildman
Glenn E. Wilkenson
John C. Willett
Brian Patrick Williams
Crossley Richard Williams, Jr.
David J. Williams
Deborah Lynn Williams
Kevin Michael Williams
Louie Anthony Williams
Louis Calvin Williams III
John P. Williamson
Donna Ann Wilson
William Wilson
David Harold Winton
Glenn J. Winuk
Thomas Francis Wise
Alan L. Wisniewski
Frank Thomas Wisniewski
David Wiswall
Sigrid Wiswe
Michael Wittenstein
Christopher W. Wodenshek
Martin P. Wohlforth
Katherine Susan Wolf
Jennifer Yen Wong
Siu Cheung Wong
Yin Ping Wong
Yuk Ping Wong
Brent James Woodall
James John Woods
Patrick J. Woods
Richard Herron Woodwell
David Terence Wooley
John Bentley Works
Martin Michael Wortley
Rodney James Wotton
William Wren
John Wayne Wright
Neil Robin Wright
Sandra Lee Wright
Jupiter Yambem
Suresh Yanamadala
Matthew David Yarnell
Myrna Yaskulka
Shakila Yasmin
Olabisi Shadie Layeni Yee
William Yemele
Edward P. York
Kevin Patrick York
Raymond R. York
Suzanne Youmans
Barrington Young
Jacqueline Young
Elkin Yuen
Joseph C. Zaccoli
Adel Agayby Zakhary
Arkady Zaltsman
Edwin J. Zambrana, Jr.
Robert Alan Zampieri
Mark Zangrilli
Ira Zaslow
Kenneth Albert Zelman
Abraham J. Zelmanowitz
Martin Morales Zempoaltecatl
Zhe Zeng
Marc Scott Zeplin
Jie Yao Justin Zhao
Ivelin Ziminski
Michael Joseph Zinzi
Charles A. Zion
Julie Lynne Zipper
Salvatore Zisa
Prokopios Paul Zois
Joseph J. Zuccala
Andrew S. Zucker
Igor Zukelman

American Airlines Flight 11

Anna Allison
David Lawrence Angell
Lynn Edwards Angell
Seima Aoyama
Barbara Jean Arestegui
Myra Joy Aronson
Christine Barbuto
Carolyn Beug
Kelly Ann Booms
Carol Marie Bouchard
Robin Lynne Kaplan
Neilie Anne Heffernan Casey
Jeffrey Dwayne Collman
Jeffrey W. Coombs
Tara Kathleen Creamer
Thelma Cuccinello
Patrick Currivan
Brian Paul Dale
David Dimeglio
Donald Americo Ditullio
Alberto Dominguez
Paige Marie Farley-Hackel
Alexander Milan Filipov
Carol Ann Flyzik
Paul J. Friedman
Karleton D.B. Fyfe
Peter Alan Gay
Linda M. George
Edmund Glazer
Lisa Reinhart Gordenstein
Andrew Peter Charles Curry Green
Peter Paul Hashem
Robert Jay Hayes
Edward R. Hennessy, Jr.
John A. Hofer
Cora Hidalgo Holland
John Nicholas Humber, Jr.
Waleed Joseph Iskandar
John Charles Jenkins
Charles Edward Jones
Barbara A. Keating
David P. Kovalcin
Judith Camilla Larocque
Natalie Janis Lasden
Daniel John Lee
Daniel M. Lewin
Sara Elizabeth Low
Susan A. Mackay
Karen Ann Martin
Thomas F. McGuinness, Jr.
Christopher D. Mello
Jeffrey Peter Mladenik
Carlos Alberto Montoya
Antonio Jesus Montoya Valdes
Laura Lee Morabito
Mildred Naiman
Laurie Ann Neira
Renee Lucille Newell
Kathleen Ann Nicosia
Jacqueline June Norton
Robert Grant Norton
John Ogonowski
Betty Ann Ong
Jane M. Orth
Thomas Nicholas Pecorelli
Berinthia B. Perkins
Sonia M. Puopolo
David E. Retik
Jean Destrehan Roger
Philip Martin Rosenzweig
Richard Barry Ross
Jessica Leigh Sachs
Rahma Salie
Heather Lee Smith
Dianne Bullis Snyder
Douglas Joel Stone
Xavier Suarez
Madeline Amy Sweeney
Michael Theodoridis
James Anthony Trentini
Mary Barbara Trentini
Pendyala Vamsikrishna
Mary Alice Wahlstrom
Kenneth Waldie
John Joseph Wenckus
Candace Lee Williams
Christopher Rudolph Zarba, Jr.

List of Victims on United Airlines Flight 175

Alona Abraham
Garnet Edward Bailey
Mark Lawrence Bavis
Graham Andrew Berkeley
Touri Bolourchi
Klaus Bothe
Daniel Raymond Brandhorst
David Reed Gamboa Brandhorst
John Brett Cahill
Christoffer Mikael Carstanjen
John J. Corcoran III
Dorothy Alma de Araujo
Ana Gloria Pocasangre Debarrera
Robert John Fangman
Lisa Anne Frost
Ronald Gamboa
Lynn Catherine Goodchild
Peter M. Goodrich
Douglas Alan Gowell
Francis Edward Grogan
Carl Max Hammond, Jr.
Christine Lee Hanson
Peter Burton Hanson
Susan Kim Hanson
Gerald Francis Hardacre
Eric Hartono
James Edward Hayden
Herbert Wilson Homer
Michael Robert Horrocks
Robert Adrien Jalbert
Amy N. Jarret
Ralph Kershaw
Heinrich Kimmig
Amy R. King
Brian Kinney
Kathryn L. LaBorie
Robert G. Leblanc
Maclovio Lopez, Jr.
Marianne Macfarlane
Alfred Gilles Marchand
Louis Mariani
Juliana McCourt
Ruth Magdaline McCourt
Wolfgang Peter Menzel
Shawn M. Nassaney
Marie Pappalardo
Patrick J. Quigley IV
Frederick Charles Rimmele III
James Roux
Jesus Sanchez
Victor J. Saracini
Mary Kathleen Shearer
Robert M. Shearer
Jane Louise Simpkin
Brian David Sweeney
Michael C. Tarrou
Alicia N. Titus
Timothy Ray Ward
William Michael Weems

List of Victims at the Pentagon (Not Including Flight 77)
Note: USA - United Stated Army; USN - United States Navy

SPC Craig S. Amundson, USA
YN3 Melissa Rose Barnes, USN
MSG Max J. Beilke, Retired
IT2 Kris Romeo Bishundat, USN
Carrie R. Blagburn
COL Canfield D. Boone, ARNG
Donna M. Bowen
Allen P. Boyle
ET3 Christopher L. Burford, USN
ET3 Daniel M. Caballero, USN
SFC Jose O. Calderon-Olmedo, USA
Angelene C. Carter
Sharon A. Carver
SFC John J. Chada, USA, Retired
Rosa Maria Chapa
Julian T. Cooper
LCDR Eric A. Cranford, USN
Ada M. Davis
CAPT Gerald F. DeConto, USN
LTC Jerry D. Dickerson, USA
IT1 Johnnie Doctor, Jr., USN
CAPT Robert E. Dolan, Jr., USN
CDR William H. Donovan, USN
CDR Patrick Dunn, USN
AG1 Edward T. Earhart, USN
LCDR Robert R. Elseth, USNR
SK3 Jamie L. Fallon, USN
Amelia V. Fields
Gerald P. Fisher
AG2 Matthew M. Flocco, USN
Sandra N. Foster
CAPT Lawrence D. Getzfred, USN
Cortez Ghee
Brenda C. Gibson
COL Ronald F. Golinski, USA, Retired
Diane Hale-McKinzy
Carolyn B. Halmon
Sheila M.S. Hein
ET1 Ronald J. Hemenway, USN
MAJ Wallace Cole Hogan, Jr., USA
SSG Jimmie I. Holley, USA, Retired
Angela M. Houtz
Brady Kay Howell
Peggie M. Hurt
LTC Stephen N. Hyland, Jr., USA
Lt Col Robert J. Hymel, USAF, Retired
SGM Lacey B. Ivory, USA
LTC Dennis M. Johnson, USA
Judith L. Jones
Brenda Kegler
LT Michael S. Lamana, USN
David W. Laychak
Samantha L. Lightbourn-Allen
MAJ Stephen V. Long, USA
James T. Lynch, Jr.
Terence M. Lynch
OS2 Nehamon Lyons IV, USN
Shelley A. Marshall
Teresa M. Martin
Ada L. Mason-Acker
LTC Dean E. Mattson, USA
LTG Timothy J. Maude, USA
Robert J. Maxwell
Molly L. McKenzie
Patricia E. Mickley
MAJ Ronald D. Milam, USA
Gerard P. Moran, Jr.
Odessa V. Morris
ET1 Brian A. Moss, USN
Teddington H. Moy
LCDR Patrick J. Murphy, USNR
Khang Ngoc Nguyen
DM2 Michael A. Noeth, USN
Ruben S. Ornedo
Diana B. Padro
LT Jonas M. Panik, USNR
MAJ Clifford L. Patterson, Jr., USA
LT Darin H. Pontell, USNR
Scott Powell
CAPT Jack D. Punches, USN, Retired
AW1 Joseph J. Pycior, Jr., USN
Deborah A. Ramsaur
Rhonda Sue Rasmussen
IT1 Marsha D. Ratchford, USN
Martha M. Reszke
Cecelia E. (Lawson) Richard
Edward V. Rowenhorst
Judy Rowlett
SGM Robert E. Russell, USA, Retired
CW4 William R. Ruth, ARNG
Charles E. Sabin, Sr.
Marjorie C. Salamone
COL David M. Scales, USA
CDR Robert A. Schlegel, USN
Janice M. Scott
LTC Michael L. Selves, USA, Retired
Marian H. Serva
CDR Dan F. Shanower, USN
Antionette M. Sherman
Diane M. Simmons
Cheryle D. Sincock
ITC Gregg H. Smallwood, USN
LTC Gary F. Smith, USA, Retired
Patricia J. Statz
Edna L. Stephens
SGM Larry L. Strickland, USA
LTC Kip P. Taylor, USA
Sandra C. Taylor
LTC Karl W. Teepe, USA, Retired
SGT Tamara C. Thurman, USA
LCDR Otis V. Tolbert, USN
SSG Willie Q. Troy, USA, Retired
LCDR Ronald J. Vauk, USNR
LTC Karen J. Wagner, USA
Meta L. (Fuller) Waller
SPC Chin Sun Pak Wells, USA
SSG Maudlyn A. White, USA
Sandra L. White
Ernest M. Willcher
LCDR David L. Williams, USN
MAJ Dwayne Williams, USA
RMC Marvin Roger Woods, USN, Retired
IT2 Kevin W. Yokum, USN
ITC Donald M. Young, USN
Edmond G. Young, Jr.
Lisa L. Young

List of Victims on American Airlines Flight 77

Paul W. Ambrose
Yeneneh Betru
Mary Jane Booth
Bernard C. Brown, II
CAPT Charles F. Burlingame III, USNR, Retired
Suzanne M. Calley
William E. Caswell
David M. Charlebois
Sarah M. Clark
Asia S. Cottom
James D. Debeuneure
Rodney Dickens
Eddie A. Dillard
LCDR Charles A. Droz III, USN, Retired
Barbara G. Edwards
Charles S. Falkenberg
Dana Falkenberg
Zoe Falkenberg
J. Joseph Ferguson
Darlene E. Flagg
RADM Wilson F. Flagg, USNR, Retired
1stLt Richard P. Gabriel, USMC, Retired
Ian J. Gray
Stanley R. Hall
Michele M. Heidenberger
Bryan C. Jack
Steven D. Jacoby
Ann C. Judge
Chandler R. Keller
Yvonne E. Kennedy
Norma Cruz Khan
Karen Ann Kincaid
Dong Chul Lee
Jennifer Lewis
Kenneth E. Lewis
Renee A. May
Dora Marie Menchaca
Christopher C. Newton
Barbara K. Olson
Ruben S. Ornedo
Robert Penninger
Robert R. Ploger III
Zandra F. Ploger
Lisa J. Raines
Todd H. Reuben
John P. Sammartino
George W. Simmons
Donald D. Simmons
Mari-Rae Sopper
Robert Speisman
Norma Lang Steuerle
Hilda E. Taylor
Leonard E. Taylor
Sandra D. Teague
Leslie A. Whittington
CAPT John D. Yamnicky, Sr., USN, Retired
Vicki Yancey
Shuyin Yang
Yuguag Zheng

List of Victims on United Airlines Flight 93

Christian Adams
Lorraine G. Bay
Todd Beamer
Alan Beaven
Mark K. Bingham
Deora Frances Bodley
Sandra W. Bradshaw
Marion Britton
Thomas E. Burnett Jr.
William Cashman
Georgine Rose Corrigan
Patricia Cushing
Jason Dahl
Joseph Deluca
Patrick Driscoll
Edward Porter Felt
Jane C. Folger
Colleen Fraser
Andrew Garcia
Jeremy Glick
Lauren Grandcolas
Wanda A. Green
Donald F. Greene
Linda Gronlund
Richard Guadagno
Leroy Homer, Jr.
Toshiya Kuge
CeeCee Lyles
Hilda Marcin
Waleska Martinez
Nicole Miller
Louis J. Nacke, II
Donald Arthur Peterson
Jean Hoadley Peterson
Mark Rothenberg
Christine Snyder
John Talignani
Honor Elizabeth Wainio
Deborah Ann Jacobs Welsh
Kristin Gould White
Shadowfax is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 11:41 AM   #63 (permalink)
censored

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,772
Representing:
Default

from comments of family members that i've seen, they're celebrating closure, not justice.
dfunkie1 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 11:43 AM   #64 (permalink)
Is playing the dude disguised as another dude

Moderator

 
Shadowfax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: 5th Dimension
Posts: 10,041
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
oh for crying out loud mr m, the names of the victims are irrelevant. the question is regarding whether or not vengeance is justice. posting their names contributes nothing to that argument.
i totally disagree

the names of the victims are VERY relevant
Shadowfax is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 11:44 AM   #65 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,593
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mxyzptlk View Post
i totally disagree

the names of the victims are VERY relevant
give me one reason why the posting of those names contributed positively to this thread.
'trane is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 11:47 AM   #66 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,593
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aar_Canada View Post
As Peter Bergen said last night and again today, these followers swore a personal oath to Bin Laden. I hate Hitler comparisons, but it was the same with Hitler. When Hitler died, so did Nazism. When so much of the substance of party, organization, group is tied up in a charismatic leader, once that leader's gone, so much is lost. Lop the head off the body and the body dies. Completely? No, but still. Bring him to trial and allow him to spew his hatred and put out his calls for action? Not a good idea, in my opinion. He admitted what he'd done, the end.
with hitler they also dismantled a nation that was organized in a way that al queda is not. they didn't just take down hitler, they took down all of his lieutenants, all of his communication, all of the infrastructure of the nation, and all the associated military strategy and effectiveness. and nazism didn't die, it just had no state mechanism anymore.

with bin laden, none of this was done.

this body is not about to die.
'trane is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 11:50 AM   #67 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,933
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
oh for crying out loud mr m, the names of the victims are irrelevant. the question is regarding whether or not vengeance is justice. posting their names contributes nothing to that argument.
+1
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 11:50 AM   #68 (permalink)
is too lazy to respond, you win

Senior Member

 
GrannyFro's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,494
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mxyzptlk View Post
i totally disagree

the names of the victims are VERY relevant
why dont you put the names of the million and one brown guys that have been slaughtered because they look like osama affiliates?

and how many mini osama's have we created by murdering ones brother or mother or i think you get the point

its a shitstorm

and if you going to post all the victims of 911 could you at least put B by every victim that was a banker or wallstreet trader/fund manger ect? it would make it a bit less tragic
GrannyFro is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 11:58 AM   #69 (permalink)
baking the cookies of discontent.

Corner 3
 
finstock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 3,140
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
with hitler they also dismantled a nation that was organized in a way that al queda is not. they didn't just take down hitler, they took down all of his lieutenants, all of his communication, all of the infrastructure of the nation, and all the associated military strategy and effectiveness. and nazism didn't die, it just had no state mechanism anymore.

with bin laden, none of this was done.

this body is not about to die.
Agreed, which is why I was surprised they killed him. I know it was a fire fight, but still, I'd do everything within my power to keep him alive - maybe they did try? Or maybe they believe he's too dangerous to keep alive. But really, more dangerous than the next guy in line, or any other radical? This will not end with Osama, who probably spent his final days watching cartoons as opposed to calling shots. I'm just super skeptical over this. They tracked him down, killed him, and dumped his body. And the only proof is purported DNA evidence? It's like a poorly written WWE storyline.
finstock is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 12:02 PM   #70 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Captain Ding Dong
 
Aar_Canada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St.Catharines
Posts: 4,924
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
with hitler they also dismantled a nation that was organized in a way that al queda is not. they didn't just take down hitler, they took down all of his lieutenants, all of his communication, all of the infrastructure of the nation, and all the associated military strategy and effectiveness. and nazism didn't die, it just had no state mechanism anymore.

with bin laden, none of this was done.

this body is not about to die.
What communication does al-Qaeda possess? It's been made next to impossible for them to coordinate any sort of meaningful attack (they certainly would have by now) and a lot of the leadership has been killed or captured. I'd argue that over the past 10 years, the same thing has been done, albeit on a smaller scale, because their organization and structure was weak to begin with.
Aar_Canada is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 12:04 PM   #71 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Captain Ding Dong
 
Aar_Canada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St.Catharines
Posts: 4,924
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneironaught View Post
Agreed, which is why I was surprised they killed him. I know it was a fire fight, but still, I'd do everything within my power to keep him alive - maybe they did try? Or maybe they believe he's too dangerous to keep alive. But really, more dangerous than the next guy in line, or any other radical? This will not end with Osama, who probably spent his final days watching cartoons as opposed to calling shots. I'm just super skeptical over this. They tracked him down, killed him, and dumped his body. And the only proof is purported DNA evidence? It's like a poorly written WWE storyline.
And now with the conspiracy theories.

They spent the past year tracking him down, found him, killed him and got rid of him. How is that difficult to comprehend?
Aar_Canada is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 12:08 PM   #72 (permalink)
baking the cookies of discontent.

Corner 3
 
finstock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 3,140
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aar_Canada View Post
And now with the conspiracy theories.

They spent the past year tracking him down, found him, killed him and got rid of him. How is that difficult to comprehend?
I just don't find the logic in killing him - if they had control of the situation. Which is a big if, of course.
finstock is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 12:10 PM   #73 (permalink)
waiting for the Masai-a

on ihateus
 
Torontosaurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Victoria, home of the Nash-ites
Posts: 3,582
Representing:
Default

I'm a bit skeptical myself as wasn't his death reported a few years ago? I think CNN is pretty biased as they benefited from all the bin laden news, but I think this might answer some of the questions:


Quote:
A U.S. official disputed reports that bin Laden had altered his appearance to avoid recognition.

The official said Bin Laden was recognizable on scene. He was "not transformed somehow."

A visual ID was made, there were photo comparisons and other facial recognition used to identify him, the official said. A second official said that in addition to DNA there was full biometric analysis of facial and body features.

There was no indication bin Laden was going to surrender when the U.S. launched its operation, a U.S. official said.

"There was no evidence they tried to surrender," the official told CNN. “The order going in was to get UBL (Osama bin Laden)”

“All of the contingency planning was that we would encounter heavy resistance," the U.S. official said. "That is what we expected and what happened. Obviously if everybody had put there hands up and surrendered we would have taken them but that did not happen and we did not expect it.”

That assumption bore itself out, the official said.

“We encountered resistance upon entering the compound," CNN was told.

Quote:
A DNA match confirms Osama bin Laden was killed in a U.S. operation, a senior administration official told CNN Monday.
U.S. troops kill Osama bin Laden in Pakistan – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs
Torontosaurus is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 12:12 PM   #74 (permalink)
is too lazy to respond, you win

Senior Member

 
GrannyFro's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,494
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aar_Canada View Post
And now with the conspiracy theories.

They spent the past year tracking him down, found him, killed him and got rid of him. How is that difficult to comprehend?
kind of like how the us went into iraq for doublya em dee's?
GrannyFro is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 12:15 PM   #75 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Captain Ding Dong
 
Aar_Canada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St.Catharines
Posts: 4,924
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrannyFro View Post
kind of like how the us went into iraq for doublya em dee's?
I don't understand the comparison.
Aar_Canada is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 12:15 PM   #76 (permalink)
waiting for the Masai-a

on ihateus
 
Torontosaurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Victoria, home of the Nash-ites
Posts: 3,582
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrannyFro View Post
kind of like how the us went into iraq for doublya em dee's?
I know, W should have been impeached for lying to the people for his own ends (oil)
Torontosaurus is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 12:17 PM   #77 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,593
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aar_Canada View Post
What communication does al-Qaeda possess? It's been made next to impossible for them to coordinate any sort of meaningful attack (they certainly would have by now) and a lot of the leadership has been killed or captured. I'd argue that over the past 10 years, the same thing has been done, albeit on a smaller scale, because their organization and structure was weak to begin with.
my point was simply that the two organizations' operated in completely different ways, so it is not unreasonable to suggest that the death of the leader would impact those organizations differently. given that one was loose, intermittant, not fixed to location and not always top-down while the other was tightly managed, geographically centred and completely centrally controlled, the leadership bore a different relationship to the organization from one to the other.

for fanatical devotees, a change in leadership is certainly not an assurance that the devotion will dissipate. especially when that change in leadership is viewed as martyrdom.
'trane is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 12:20 PM   #78 (permalink)
is too lazy to respond, you win

Senior Member

 
GrannyFro's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,494
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aar_Canada View Post
I don't understand the comparison.
I'm just point out the blatent bullshit the US gov will spew, dont beleive everything you hear




the truth is out there

GrannyFro is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 12:38 PM   #79 (permalink)
LX
present minded

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,931
Representing:
Default

I think that the level of terrorism we saw over the last 30 or 40 years has run its course. I think a big side-effect of the war in Iraq was the undermining of the al-queda cause. I would guess that they lost more devotees than they gained. There's still always going to be problems as long as there is nothing resolved between the Palestinians and Israelis, but the global directives against western interests as a motivating force has lost a lot of steam as the people of the middle east have seen anti-US figures behaving very poorly against their own people. I don't underestimate the importance of Al Jazeera in that as well - getting a good source of information as a basis to take matters into their own hands has allowed the idea of american influence to fade into the background.
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 01:02 PM   #80 (permalink)
contemplating

The Killing Joke

 
Claudius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burkina Faso, Disputed Zone
Posts: 10,029
Representing:
Send a message via MSN to Claudius
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aar_Canada View Post
As Peter Bergen said last night and again today, these followers swore a personal oath to Bin Laden. I hate Hitler comparisons, but it was the same with Hitler. When Hitler died, so did Nazism. When so much of the substance of party, organization, group is tied up in a charismatic leader, once that leader's gone, so much is lost. Lop the head off the body and the body dies. Completely? No, but still. Bring him to trial and allow him to spew his hatred and put out his calls for action? Not a good idea, in my opinion. He admitted what he'd done, the end.
You cannot compare the two. It's like comparing fruits to vegetables and saying that they are similar based on the fact that they are produced by some plant form. The comparisons end there.

And again, I point to the Nuremberg trials firstly, where Goering (most notably) was tried. He still spewed his hatred and several others had calls to action as well, but nothing came of it. PM Tojo, during the Tokyo trials, refused to criticize Emperor Hirohito. I can cite other examples as well.

And of course, this can be taken many steps further with the admittance. Should GWB be tried for his invasion? Should Reagan have been tried and impeached for his lies? LBJ for manufacturing the Gulf of Tonkin incident? I could go and on. It's never that black and white though.
Claudius is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24