Bin Laden is Dead - Page 2
Old 05-02-2011, 08:15 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Perhaps I'm in the minority on this one, but I'm pretty disappointed in the celebrations over this.

I understand it, but still doesn't alleviate my disappointment.
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:34 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I thought the same thing, its pretty weird the way they celebrate it. I dont know. This is not like winning a worldcup or something. Its still a pretty sad thing.
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:46 AM   #23 (permalink)
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It's pretty sad that this is being celebrated.
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:50 AM   #24 (permalink)
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It took them 10 years to officially make Bin Laden a martyr; how many Bin Laden Jrs have been recruited as a result?

Some people are happy because they consider this to be justice. I disagree.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:03 AM   #25 (permalink)
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There were people in the streets proclaiming this the greatest event in American history. Sometimes it's just really hard to understand those folks. But the sense of unease over the last decade explains a lot of it I guess, along with a sense of importance that is a little elevated.

Hopefully there will be more to come as far as Pakistan goes. That could mean a lot to stabilizing Afghanistan, among other things.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:23 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Why didn't they arrest him and make him stand trail?
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:33 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fancylad View Post
Why didn't they arrest him and make him stand trail?
ripped from the article i posted in the Headlines thread

Quote:
When American operatives converged on the house on Sunday, Bin Laden “resisted the assault force” and was killed in the middle of an intense gun battle, a senior administration official said, but details were still sketchy early Monday morning.
Quote:
In addition to Bin Laden, three men were killed during the 40-minute raid, one believed to be his son and the other two his couriers, according to an American official who briefed reporters under White House ground rules forbidding further identification. A woman was killed when she was used as a shield by a male combatant, the official said, and two others wounded.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:35 AM   #28 (permalink)
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i was watching hardcore pawn when it happened
where were you
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:37 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I heard they also dumped him in the sea
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:37 AM   #30 (permalink)
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i was watching hardcore pawn when it happened
where were you
I was playing Castlevania on PS3. lol
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:44 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Yep, he was dumped at sea so his body could not be found and serve as a shrine.

Also, apparently the orders were shoot to kill.

Just watched Hilary Clinton's press conference and her closing words I believe were: "Justice has been served". I'm glad that's how justice is now doled out.....
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:46 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Why didn't they arrest him and make him stand trail?
Honestly, because I don't think there's anywhere the could store him. If he was placed at Gitmo, everyone would know and there'd likely be an attack to break him free from there.

If placed in a standard prison in the US, he'd likely be killed by someone (guard, prisoners etc.).
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:50 AM   #33 (permalink)
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I'm glad he's dead, but it really means fuck all at this point in the grand scheme of things. Al Quaeda is a lot more then Bin Laden, they really won't skip a beat. I think the world is a better place today with that absolute tyrant gone, but it really doesn't make us safer.

Also, be ready for these photos to be released. No way Americans will take their word for it and Burial at sea and move on with acceptance.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:55 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Sorry jeff, but I really don't see how the world is a better place. Instead, what I've seen in the past 12 hours or so, is the negative side of humanity.

I think the world would have been a better place, had he been captured, made to stand trial and then judged based off of those accusations. Instead, we reacted with vengeance because it makes us feel better. Yay!
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:00 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Sorry jeff, but I really don't see how the world is a better place. Instead, what I've seen in the past 12 hours or so, is the negative side of humanity.

I think the world would have been a better place, had he been captured, made to stand trial and then judged based off of those accusations. Instead, we reacted with vengeance because it makes us feel better. Yay!
in a large part i agree, but i just don't think it was possible to try him. there's no way to get a fair jury, the media would have been a circus, and as you said in an earlier post, there was nowhere to put him. this whole thing just martyrs him and increases the likelyhood of reprisals, but i'm not really sure what other option was realistically available. this isn't your every day criminal here.

there are a great many questions that i would love to know the answer to before i pass any judgement, and i am never going to celebrate a murder, i don't care who it is, but i just don't really know what else they could have done. would a trial not have just made this an even bigger event, with massive security risks and a prolonged spotlight?
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:03 AM   #36 (permalink)
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They didn't have enough trust in Pakistani intelligence or the government there to be able to rely on an operation that captured him. I think the kill order was the way to go, although I would have liked to see him face a trial. In the end - a trial might have raised his importance in some people's eyes. This way his aura is diminished, just as the movement overall has diminished.

here's another great look at the american reaction

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Old 05-02-2011, 10:03 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I smell an Obama re-election
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:06 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
I'm glad he's dead, but it really means fuck all at this point in the grand scheme of things. Al Quaeda is a lot more then Bin Laden, they really won't skip a beat. I think the world is a better place today with that absolute tyrant gone, but it really doesn't make us safer.

Also, be ready for these photos to be released. No way Americans will take their word for it and Burial at sea and move on with acceptance.
I think it means a lot. He was a figurehead and his followers revered him and his ideology.

And besides the inevitable college kids running around like ding dongs and celebrating because it was just some place to be, I have no problem with the celebrations - especially from those directly affected by what had happened over the years. Let's not lose sight of what this assclown and his warped, ancient views did to the west and the world.
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:07 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Sorry jeff, but I really don't see how the world is a better place. Instead, what I've seen in the past 12 hours or so, is the negative side of humanity.

I think the world would have been a better place, had he been captured, made to stand trial and then judged based off of those accusations. Instead, we reacted with vengeance because it makes us feel better. Yay!
Oh i agree. It's a better place with him gone then with him alive imo. But yeah, looking at the jubilation over this is disturbing if not somewhat understandable. But can you imagine trying him. That would have been an ongoing spectacle far worse then this, that plus it would have been a huge argument about where to try him. You think this is bad, you wouldn't have wanted to see humanity with him on trial for months.
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:10 AM   #40 (permalink)
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in a large part i agree, but i just don't think it was possible to try him. there's no way to get a fair jury, the media would have been a circus, and as you said in an earlier post, there was nowhere to put him. this whole thing just martyrs him and increases the likelyhood of reprisals, but i'm not really sure what other option was realistically available. this isn't your every day criminal here.

there are a great many questions that i would love to know the answer to before i pass any judgement, and i am never going to celebrate a murder, i don't care who it is, but i just don't really know what else they could have done. would a trial not have just made this an even bigger event, with massive security risks and a prolonged spotlight?
If anything 'trane, the way I view it, is that the US essentially operated here by abandoning many of the ideologies which they vehemently believe in.

If you fight external (and even internal) wars based on the ideology of freedom, democracy, justice, liberty etc. it should also be prevalent in your acts, or at least APPEAR to be present in your policies. Instead, what we've seen here is a country essentially abandon those principles and enforce justice based on revenge (rightly or wrongly). All you have done, is allowed for a view point to grow of a two tiered system or belief system, where if you wrong the US, the justice system which promotes those US ideals, is thrown out the window and instead it resembles something more closely to the wild wild west.

And while, I agree the spotlight etc. would be placed, we had very little problem at Nuremberg Trials and the Tokyo Trials to try Goering and Tojo during the post war world where the attitude seemed to be to bring to justice through trial individuals guilty of war crime atrocities. The precedent is there.

I just don't think the West (US) was willing to enough to go through this and instead chose the easier path.
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