Bill Maher on Conan (aug 24th) - Page 3
Old 08-27-2009, 04:16 PM   #41 (permalink)
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that doesn't logically follow at all, since men have other desires besides being entirely consumed by the need for female adoration. not to mention the fact that women tend to be attracted to men that display masculine characteristics, not feminine ones...

and the fact that men have always been swayed by, as you put it, 'the allure of female beauty'.

you seem to be confusing the emergence of a female voice in the public consciousness with the feminization of culture overall. as i said yesterday, it seems to me to be more of a broadening of perspective than a de-masculinization or an overt feminization of the masculine. all of those masculine characteristics are still there, there's just additional space for the feminine as well, given the proliferation of cultural sources.
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Old 08-27-2009, 04:19 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Male values? I honestly have no idea what that means. Any values that get divided up and defined more in opposition to something else than in promoting an actual good, are not worth shit.

Actual human values look past the need to make a particular group subservient, and aim at achieving a sense of equality, even if the absolute ideal of equality is unattainable. I can't see how anyone would want to live their lives with the idea that women are a curse or something. Since I was about 3 fucking years old I have looked for a bond with a female counterpart in order to feel complete. I did not look for sex or power, but rather understanding and a wholeness that brings an overwhelming richness of experience every day. It was actually quite easy to attain when I was 3,4,5, and pretty much right up to where my dick started taking over, and even then the biggest problem was with regards to all the bullshit that "male values" brought with them. It was enough to make me consider becoming permanently asexual. And it was at the point of giving up fighting against the tide of masculine expectations, that I found all kinds of relationships with women becoming possible again.

When I married, both myself and my wife were very independent. We didn't come together out of a need to overcome any weakness or dependency. And yet I would be prepared to give up absolutely anything in order to keep what we have intact. Nothing else matters. We make each other better, and we experience the world in a more fulfilling way than we would alone. And Cory - you sound like someone destined to be alone, very alone.
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:58 PM   #43 (permalink)
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that doesn't logically follow at all, since men have other desires besides being entirely consumed by the need for female adoration.
I never said they had to be entirely consumed, but if it's the primary priority for most males, and if a very large % of male behavior is to please women, then you have a really shoddy situation.

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not to mention the fact that women tend to be attracted to men that display masculine characteristics, not feminine ones...
Actually, this isn't really true. Science has shown recently than females are attracted to men with more feminine faces. A man who is too masculine, is not the kind of man a woman wants to build a life with. She wants a man she can control. The super masculine man is the kind of guy she might cheat on her husband with, or have a fling with. But she's not as interested in him for long term.

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and the fact that men have always been swayed by, as you put it, 'the allure of female beauty'.
Sure, men have always been fools, generally.

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you seem to be confusing the emergence of a female voice in the public consciousness with the feminization of culture overall.
I didn't mean to imply that feminization of culture is recent (culture is generally centered around women, perennially) but that maybe it's a little more pronounced these days.

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as i said yesterday, it seems to me to be more of a broadening of perspective than a de-masculinization or an overt feminization of the masculine. all of those masculine characteristics are still there, there's just additional space for the feminine as well, given the proliferation of cultural sources.
I think it's very unusual in this age, and hugely offensive to say that men have unique and very significant advantages over women, intellectually and spiritually. In earlier times and older cultures, acknowledging this was not a big deal and it was valued, and the fact that today we have all this gender neutral schooling and pathologizing the natural behavior and thinking of boys, suggests that females have taken the reins. Plus, women belittle men all the time, as if it's no big deal, and men often won't care, but women and society will take huge offense if you point out the intellectual and spiritual short comings of females.

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Old 08-27-2009, 07:13 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Male values? I honestly have no idea what that means. Any values that get divided up and defined more in opposition to something else than in promoting an actual good, are not worth shit.
You don't think it's important to contrast passivity against activity? Or independence against dependence? Or sensuality against rationality?

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Actual human values look past the need to make a particular group subservient, and aim at achieving a sense of equality, even if the absolute ideal of equality is unattainable.
If you think I'm aiming to make women subservient, you are wrong.

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I can't see how anyone would want to live their lives with the idea that women are a curse or something. Since I was about 3 fucking years old I have looked for a bond with a female counterpart in order to feel complete. I did not look for sex or power, but rather understanding and a wholeness that brings an overwhelming richness of experience every day. It was actually quite easy to attain when I was 3,4,5, and pretty much right up to where my dick started taking over, and even then the biggest problem was with regards to all the bullshit that "male values" brought with them. It was enough to make me consider becoming permanently asexual. And it was at the point of giving up fighting against the tide of masculine expectations, that I found all kinds of relationships with women becoming possible again.

When I married, both myself and my wife were very independent. We didn't come together out of a need to overcome any weakness or dependency. And yet I would be prepared to give up absolutely anything in order to keep what we have intact. Nothing else matters. We make each other better, and we experience the world in a more fulfilling way than we would alone. And Cory - you sound like someone destined to be alone, very alone.
I appreciate your sincerity and obvious intelligence, but understand that I value finding fulfillment and completeness in simply being. I don't look for fulfillment in any particular person, experience or thing.

Just imagine what it would be like to not have to worry or care about anybody or anything, to not care about outcomes, to have nothing to lose, to be absolutely content and fearless in an understanding of formlessness and truth. I have found unconditional freedom, and I think mankind would be so much better off if he could bring an end to his chasing and clinging.

Last edited by Cory; 08-27-2009 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:17 PM   #45 (permalink)
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You can actually pinpoint the beginning of the feminization of culture back to the day when Home Improvement went off the air.

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Old 08-27-2009, 07:47 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:50 PM   #47 (permalink)
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chasing and clinging.

I didn't chase, or cling.

But I got captured, and now my penis doesn't belong to me.

Feminization! DAMN YOU TO HELLLLL!!!!


This whole debate is idiotic.

Call it what it is, "the feminization of culture, "a change in gender roles", it isn't happening because of any specific decision, or person, it can't be right or wrong, it just is.

Saying the "feminization of culture" really sounds silly though, especially considering that the definition of feminizing is exchanging male parts with female parts.

Is there a point where a culture can be feminized so much, that it cant be feminized anymore?? I guess the ultimate feminization of culture would be the complete extermination of all males.
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:11 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Saying the "feminization of culture" really sounds silly though, especially considering that the definition of feminizing is exchanging male parts with female parts.
Yeah, that's the definition...

You can do better than that.
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:33 PM   #49 (permalink)
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The feminization of culture? I'll always believe that such a thing has never really occurred, but rather as some have alluded to, a simple expansion and acceptance of a gender that was typically seen as secondary, was finally being accepted into popular culture. Is that enough to classify for feminzation though? Or some type of subversive, even counter cultural movement?

When I take a long, long, look around, I see nothing but the reaffirmation of what masculinity apparently means. Popular Sitcoms such as The Office and 30 Rock, when you look at the individuals who are placed in an executive position, it is typically men. Not women, but men. So what does that say about who has actual power in our society? Who are the real determining players?

I take a look at who's in power in goverment. Sarah Palin played UP her masculinity (i.e. loving hockey, being hunter, standing up to a former power like the USSR); Condoleeza Rice had a bigger set of balls then I did and had to become masculine and Hillary Clinton has herself become far more masculine. In fact in politics, if one is a senator in the US, they become far more masculine looking. However, in the first lady role, hey have to both take on a feminine even sexual role (see Michelle Obama).

Hell, let's examine how many women actually have executive roles and what their pay is compared to their male counterparts, with large, powerful multinational companies? The feminization of our culture? Really? Look at the growth of pornography since the internet. Over 80% of all pornography is watched by men. Do you know how much pornography has actually grown? Yet, I forgot, I'm looking at the feminization of our culture. However, I fail to see how this has permeated in our schools or how we're becoming more "feminine".

Last time I looked, gender roles have become more pronounced than ever and whatever masculininity is, is attempting to reaffirm what it is and take back its place where true power in our culture lies. And if a woman, or someone who is feminine wishes to make it to where the real power lies, they must take on masculine traits.
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Old 08-28-2009, 07:11 AM   #50 (permalink)
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You don't think it's important to contrast passivity against activity? Or independence against dependence? Or sensuality against rationality?



If you think I'm aiming to make women subservient, you are wrong.



I appreciate your sincerity and obvious intelligence, but understand that I value finding fulfillment and completeness in simply being. I don't look for fulfillment in any particular person, experience or thing.

Just imagine what it would be like to not have to worry or care about anybody or anything, to not care about outcomes, to have nothing to lose, to be absolutely content and fearless in an understanding of formlessness and truth. I have found unconditional freedom, and I think mankind would be so much better off if he could bring an end to his chasing and clinging.
So you don't want women to be subservient, you just insist on applying negative connotations to their existence. OK. Great.

Rationality is your thing? That's such a positive that should be a dominant aspect in our culture? That was the case in the Third Reich. How did that work out? You also toss out Freedom as an ideal. That's a very nebulous word. If you can actually attain a position of having nothing to lose and be completely unattached then I suppose you could define that as freedom. It also defines madness, and I've towed that line myself. I do not chase or cling. I don't know if you understood my points at all. In the instances where I did chase a bit, it did not really work for me. Doing away with the chase and all the sexual politics actually helped me to form very good relationships with women, of a similar kind as when I was a kid. There was nothing but depth added to my life ever since. There has been some loss of freedom, but that's a deal I make every time.

Finally - I would take passivity over activity. I think there is actually more freedom that can be attained by being passive rather than being active, by being at one with things rather than actively fighting to be distinct or actively shaping all existence to suit one sole individual existence. And how much independence is really possible? Are you not dependent on the air everytime you breathe, on all of life every second you continue to live?
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Old 08-30-2009, 10:17 AM   #51 (permalink)
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The feminization of culture? I'll always believe that such a thing has never really occurred, but rather as some have alluded to, a simple expansion and acceptance of a gender that was typically seen as secondary, was finally being accepted into popular culture.
Yes, and when this happened, women gradually started taking more and more control with their beauty. I mean, you only have to look at how incredibly slutty young girls (sometimes as young as late elementary school and earlier junior high) dress in schools, and to me, there's a lot of evidence that this really drags down everyone in the school. The girls engage in an arms race to be provocative, and the boys engage in a crude arms race to secure mates. That's why I'm in favor of single sex education and dress code. Keep the sexes separate to help prevent feminization.

And then there is the whole of pop culture, with it's paris hiltons, pop-singers and the like, dragging down the collective consciousness.

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When I take a long, long, look around, I see nothing but the reaffirmation of what masculinity apparently means. Popular Sitcoms such as The Office and 30 Rock, when you look at the individuals who are placed in an executive position, it is typically men. Not women, but men. So what does that say about who has actual power in our society? Who are the real determining players?
The ones who give men approval, a sense of direction outside of work, and the consumers in general. Those are the real determining players.

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I take a look at who's in power in goverment. Sarah Palin played UP her masculinity (i.e. loving hockey, being hunter, standing up to a former power like the USSR);
Right, her masculinity was a parody. If she had real masculinity, then she wouldn't have looked like such a fool.

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Condoleeza Rice had a bigger set of balls then I did and had to become masculine and Hillary Clinton has herself become far more masculine. In fact in politics, if one is a senator in the US, they become far more masculine looking.
Well, even though it has a very male history, politics isn't a very masculine tradition anyway, but at least it's more admirable than religion, which is very feminine.

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Hell, let's examine how many women actually have executive roles and what their pay is compared to their male counterparts, with large, powerful multinational companies? The feminization of our culture? Really? Look at the growth of pornography since the internet. Over 80% of all pornography is watched by men.
Yes, women doing what women do very well, exploiting and robbing the attention of male weaknesses. If you think pornography is all about men, you are wrong.

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Do you know how much pornography has actually grown?
It probably has grown to the degree that we have convinced ourselves that femininity is OK.

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Yet, I forgot, I'm looking at the feminization of our culture. However, I fail to see how this has permeated in our schools or how we're becoming more "feminine".
Just look at kids these days and the relationship they have with pop stars. Like I said, we need single sex schooling with a withdrawal from the feminized media.

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Last time I looked, gender roles have become more pronounced than ever and whatever masculininity is, is attempting to reaffirm what it is and take back its place where true power in our culture lies. And if a woman, or someone who is feminine wishes to make it to where the real power lies, they must take on masculine traits.
I'm all in favor of women taking on masculine traits, as the feminine ones really hold us back.
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Old 08-30-2009, 10:22 AM   #52 (permalink)
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So you don't want women to be subservient, you just insist on applying negative connotations to their existence. OK. Great.
I want them to strive toward equality.

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Rationality is your thing? That's such a positive that should be a dominant aspect in our culture? That was the case in the Third Reich.
Not really. Hitler was intent on whipping his population into a mad frenzy, placing value on the aesthetic (feminine), and insinuating religious ideas. He was far from rational.

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How did that work out? You also toss out Freedom as an ideal. That's a very nebulous word. If you can actually attain a position of having nothing to lose and be completely unattached then I suppose you could define that as freedom. It also defines madness, and I've towed that line myself.
Well, I disagree that it's madness, but I can understand how ordinary (insane) people would see it as madness.

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Finally - I would take passivity over activity. I think there is actually more freedom that can be attained by being passive rather than being active, by being at one with things rather than actively fighting to be distinct or actively shaping all existence to suit one sole individual existence. And how much independence is really possible? Are you not dependent on the air everytime you breathe, on all of life every second you continue to live?
I'm referring to the problem of psychological dependency, not physical dependency. You can't escape physical dependency. Psychologically, I depend on no one, which allows me to be at one with the all.
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Old 08-30-2009, 12:06 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Yeah - ok. You have an identity right? I mean here you are Cory, that's one thing. In the real world you might have the same name, or a different one, and a number connected to that on top of that. You depend on the state to have, keep, and maintain that identity from birth. If you want to simply be, then you need to go up to northern Ontario, park at the side of the road, and walk into the bush, where you will have no identity. Actually, you'll want to make sure that car is well hidden as well. Have fun with that. I've felt the pull of that kind of freedom myself. I get it. But without forsaking your identity in such a manner, you're going to have to subscribe to a certain amount of dependency, and I would suggest that hating on women, or even just dismissing their value, isn't a great way to go, and I would think it actually takes you a long way away from really being with the all.

You seem to be a pretty thoughtful guy. You also seem a bit rigid in your thoughts. At least you appear to have closed your mind to the feminine perspective. The sex act, for instance, need not be seen as one where the female takes on a passive role. We call it penetration, but from another perspective it can be seen as an enveloping or engulfing or a taking in. The feminine is usually defined by males and their fantasies. You are really missing something if you don't look beyond the surface. Take that for what it's worth. I suspect you'll discard it. And in the meantime I will feel that you do women a double disservice.

There is a weeper of a song where a big dope laments his fate, and blames everything bad in his life on the existence of "Honky-tonk Angels". The song that became more powerful, came from the opposite of what could be considered a feminist - Kitty Wells. She sang - "It wasn't God who made Honky-tonk Angels". She was not going to accept the double standard that requires women to be the controlling force in keeping men in line sexually and morally, as dictated by male power figures, and then be left with no other active role outside of the family household, again as defined by male institutions, while men simply transferred all accountability of their straying from social norms to women. Freedom indeed. It just takes way too much shoehorning to insist on such simplicity. And not being open to the rich complexity that an authentic male/female relationship offers, does nobody any good in the long run, while leaving whole sets of tragic consequences sprouting up. There is actually the chance to form a bond that lies about as far outside the grasp of the state as one can find outside of living alone in the wild. It has allowed me to "simply be" at least partially.

When I was young I was allowed the freedom to believe I could become a rock star and be idolized by women, regardless of my looks or my character. It's been my experience that young women have not been given such freedom. They can dream of living up to male ideals of themselves, to be models, to marry a rock star. That's generalizing, but it's also the prevalent pattern. Blaming the young women for their own poor choices helps nothing.

Last edited by LX; 08-30-2009 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 09-05-2009, 09:53 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Yeah - ok. You have an identity right? I mean here you are Cory, that's one thing. In the real world you might have the same name, or a different one, and a number connected to that on top of that. You depend on the state to have, keep, and maintain that identity from birth. If you want to simply be, then you need to go up to northern Ontario, park at the side of the road, and walk into the bush, where you will have no identity. Actually, you'll want to make sure that car is well hidden as well. Have fun with that. I've felt the pull of that kind of freedom myself. I get it. But without forsaking your identity in such a manner, you're going to have to subscribe to a certain amount of dependency,
Physical dependency, yes. Psychological dependency, no.

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and I would suggest that hating on women, or even just dismissing their value, isn't a great way to go, and I would think it actually takes you a long way away from really being with the all.
Women are largely worry machines. Not only are they always worrying, but they make you worry.

This is the opposite of being with the all. Everything is already ok is my motto.......and this is why I will never get along with women, because their whole mindset is worry, desire, boredom, worry, desire, boredom, worry, desire.....it never ends!

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You seem to be a pretty thoughtful guy. You also seem a bit rigid in your thoughts. At least you appear to have closed your mind to the feminine perspective. The sex act, for instance, need not be seen as one where the female takes on a passive role. We call it penetration, but from another perspective it can be seen as an enveloping or engulfing or a taking in.
Oh, I have no doubt about that! That is precisely my perspective. I don't want to be swallowed up by the vag!

However, the physical act of sex isn't so bad, and I like a woman who can get on top and do her own thing.

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When I was young I was allowed the freedom to believe I could become a rock star and be idolized by women, regardless of my looks or my character. It's been my experience that young women have not been given such freedom. They can dream of living up to male ideals of themselves, to be models, to marry a rock star. That's generalizing, but it's also the prevalent pattern. Blaming the young women for their own poor choices helps nothing.
I'm not even blaming them. This whole debate started when I said that men should contrast the benefits of masculine relationships, to the opiate of feminine relationships.

Last edited by Cory; 09-05-2009 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 09-08-2009, 02:26 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Cory, you do realize that you are simply labelling all women the same. You claim they are essentially worry machines. Hell, look at the language you use, all have a negative connotation. Your whole line of what women mindset etc. is inherrently wrong.

You conciously decide (or have decided) that this is what women always believe in yet there is no evidence to prove these claims. Could one not claim that a man's mindset is: money? sex? power? A mindset the attempts to control one the other?

It's also interesting to note that you enjoy the act of sex and the idea of woman on top. Fantastic. The only reason you enjoy it is because it is pleasing you or pleasurable to you.

Now to your previous points?

You bring up how girls dress in school and almost show a degree of empathy for the boys in the school because somehow they're being tricked into it. It's absurd. It's a co-dependent relationship. If men/boys/males found women who did not do any make up, dressed "properly" etc. to be attractive then females would obviously tone it down. However, saying, we need to keep the seperate because this natural, physiological attraction to the other sex is something that needs to be curbed is sad. At some point, your forgetting that we are responsible for our own actions in the end. Just as I was, just as my friends were, just as everyone is. No one has ever "tricked" me into anything. I've always made the final decision myself. Hell, you've insinuated several times that it's women who essentially make the men decided things. But what of peer pressure exerted by men on other men which make men do dumb things? Where is this relationship in your model or how is it accounted for?

And you bring up pop stars and our relationship with them? Really? If you haven't given once concrete example yet? How is a "male" having a "relationship" with a pop star any different than that same boy putting up pictures of athletes and his favourite team? I forgot, I guess its an accepted norm because sports and competition is a normal male trait (except when being used to court a mate correct). But wait, using your logic, where men are searching for acceptance of women, therefore, sports is really a grandiose act where men beat other men to reach approval of females as then they'll be seen as the "alpha male" and the most acceptable partner for sex. Therefore, sports are also an arena where women have asserted their dominance. Which then begs the question, why do you watch sports?

And how do you account for other cultures Cory where Western masculine traits are seen as feminine in other cultures and vice versa? Or do those just not exist?

Once you get beyond the idea of a vs. b. you realize that idea of what is masculine and what is feminine isn't that clear. Hell, how do you account for the transgendered even?

No offence but you sound like a misogynst, but of course, you'll say women are misandrious and therefore it will give your idea credibility because an eye for an eye right?
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:24 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Cory, you do realize that you are simply labelling all women the same.
It boils down to definitions. If you define a woman as a feminine person, and if you define the feminine as being worrisome (and many other things), then that's logical. I'm not saying a biological woman can't become masculine, but if she does, I would hardly consider her really a woman. Biologically, yes, she's a woman, but psychologically, she is either masculine or just simply wise.

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You claim they are essentially worry machines.
If they are feminine, then yes, they would be largely worrisome creatures, always looking to latch onto people so that they can transfer their worry onto others, in order to exploit them.

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You conciously decide (or have decided) that this is what women always believe in yet there is no evidence to prove these claims. Could one not claim that a man's mindset is: money? sex? power?
When he is hypnotized by the allure of femininity, sure.

Other times he strives to be as independent and ethical as possible, maybe becoming a great spiritual teacher or philosopher.

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You bring up how girls dress in school and almost show a degree of empathy for the boys in the school because somehow they're being tricked into it.
I have just as much empathy for the females, who are quite a bit more nasty socially in their cliques, and fall prey to eating disorders and self-harm.

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It's absurd. It's a co-dependent relationship. If men/boys/males found women who did not do any make up, dressed "properly" etc. to be attractive then females would obviously tone it down.
No way. Guys honestly don't care that much about makeup and stuff. Most guys tell their girlfriends that that all the makeup and clothes are unecessary.

But females refuse to listen to us. They need all that stuff to compete with other females. They care about what other women think more than they care what men think!

The females are just as competitive as men, they are just more indirect and silly about it. They need makeup to feel good about themselves, because their self worth is so tied to what they see in the mirror.

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However, saying, we need to keep the seperate because this natural, physiological attraction to the other sex is something that needs to be curbed is sad. At some point, your forgetting that we are responsible for our own actions in the end.
I don't believe in free will. In fact, it's logically impossible.

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Just as I was, just as my friends were, just as everyone is. No one has ever "tricked" me into anything. I've always made the final decision myself. Hell, you've insinuated several times that it's women who essentially make the men decided things.
The feminine makes men do bad things.

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And you bring up pop stars and our relationship with them? Really? If you haven't given once concrete example yet? How is a "male" having a "relationship" with a pop star any different than that same boy putting up pictures of athletes and his favourite team? I forgot, I guess its an accepted norm because sports and competition is a normal male trait (except when being used to court a mate correct). But wait, using your logic, where men are searching for acceptance of women, therefore, sports is really a grandiose act where men beat other men to reach approval of females as then they'll be seen as the "alpha male" and the most acceptable partner for sex. Therefore, sports are also an arena where women have asserted their dominance. Which then begs the question, why do you watch sports?
Sports is when men get together and cooperate as a team. Yes, there is competition, but opposing teams usually give each other a pat on a the back afterwards. That's the male spirit.

I like watching the execution of a smart, intelligent team, with a good coach.

It's also nice to see women getting involved in sports.

What is truly appalling is a man obsessing over his appearance, superflously drawing attention to his sexual areas, gossiping and back-stabbing people because he's insecure and jealous. That's female stuff.

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And how do you account for other cultures Cory where Western masculine traits are seen as feminine in other cultures and vice versa? Or do those just not exist?
Masculinity is what's important. Which gender carries the mindset is less relevant.

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Once you get beyond the idea of a vs. b. you realize that idea of what is masculine and what is feminine isn't that clear. Hell, how do you account for the transgendered even?
Such a person is a mix. Such a person might focus on masculinizing himself as much as possible, or he may fall prey to the vag.

Last edited by Cory; 09-10-2009 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 09-10-2009, 07:52 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Good lord, Cory.... what happened to you to make you this way?

And how in the world have you avoided having a single relationship with a good woman? There are plenty of them..... and your viewpoint could simply not be what it is if you had experienced what a good woman has to offer, which is nothing as you describe them all as.
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Old 09-11-2009, 05:35 PM   #58 (permalink)
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I don't believe in free will. In fact, it's logically impossible.
I've agreed, (for the most part), with your argument about our culture showing more traditionally feminine traits nowadays, but I just can't get around this statement. Maybe I'm not getting your complete message, but to say that free will is impossible makes no sense because you are using your own free will to type that. The only way that you are not is if you are being forced to, which I just cannot see being the case.
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:44 PM   #59 (permalink)
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He's in a cult with RapsBestFan.
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Old 09-12-2009, 07:50 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Since this is partly a Conan thread, I want to slip in a funny joke he told the other night

Obama, in his motivational speech to students, urged them to stop dreaming of becoming professional athletes.

Interestingly, this is the same thing he said last year in a speech he gave to the LA Clippers.


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