Ashley Madison - Page 7
Old 12-17-2009, 02:00 PM   #121 (permalink)
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my question was more abstract, as i believe commerce must have a moral obligation, at least on some level. if oil companies are exempt from worrying about pollution, or arms producers from human deaths, or walmart from destroying small towns and local industry, aren't we just putting profit in front of human welfare?
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:06 PM   #122 (permalink)
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its the 'in-your-face' affect that makes it problematic.
its as if its planting a seed in people's heads.... you may be happy now, but sooner or later, you'll get an urge to cheat, and when that happens just remember 'life is short...have an affair".
whats worse is the message it may be sending to kids... teenagers and young children who see those adds. it plants that seed in their heads that its ok to cheat when i'm older... its so in their faces.
i'd love to see the numbers of decline in smokers over the last few years, and ever since they banned advertisements and showcasing in stores... i bet the number of young smokers have dropped dramatically. why? because its not in your face anymore, kids dont see the ads or the displays.
ads and displays promoting infidelity is going to prove extrmemly problematic in a few years, when the kids of today are adults with the mindset that "life is short... have an affair".

i still believe cheating is human nature and a part of life, but hat being said, pushing it in people's faces and advertising it is dirt low.
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:12 PM   #123 (permalink)
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its the 'in-your-face' affect that makes it problematic.
its as if its planting a seed in people's heads.... you may be happy now, but sooner or later, you'll get an urge to cheat, and when that happens just remember 'life is short...have an affair".
whats worse is the message it may be sending to kids... teenagers and young children who see those adds. it plants that seed in their heads that its ok to cheat when i'm older... its so in their faces.
i'd love to see the numbers of decline in smokers over the last few years, and ever since they banned advertisements and showcasing in stores... i bet the number of young smokers have dropped dramatically. why? because its not in your face anymore, kids dont see the ads or the displays.
ads and displays promoting infidelity is going to prove extrmemly problematic in a few years, when the kids of today are adults with the mindset that "life is short... have an affair".

i still believe cheating is human nature and a part of life, but hat being said, pushing it in people's faces and advertising it is dirt low.
As are ads for alcohol. That's dirt low too because it's appealing to a vice. But no one says anything about that.
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:21 PM   #124 (permalink)
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As are ads for alcohol. That's dirt low too because it's appealing to a vice. But no one says anything about that.
that's because there's nothing wrong with having a pint after work, while there is plenty wrong with cheating on your spouse or significant other.

I think most people would agree that there is nothing wrong with alcohol in moderation. It's when people abuse alcohol that it becomes a problem... but that's a seperate topic.
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:24 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Cigarette smoking amongst youth is the lowest in Canada since the 70's. It's largely credited to effective implementation of legal age laws and increased education.

Is cheating a part of human nature? I don't think so, only if we define cheating as having extra-marital affairs in secret. I agree that polyamory (the desire to have multiple sexual partners) is very natural, though of course we can't draw an ought from an is (as the philosopher in my avatar so aptly put it). I hold no quarrel with the polyamorous, but I hold legitimate quarrel with the liars and deceivers.
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:27 PM   #126 (permalink)
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that's because there's nothing wrong with having a pint after work, while there is plenty wrong with cheating on your spouse or significant other.

I think most people would agree that there is nothing wrong with alcohol in moderation. It's when people abuse alcohol that it becomes a problem... but that's a seperate topic.
See, it becomes a touchy subject. 1 can very easily lead to 2 or 3 pints..then you jump behind the wheel of a vechile. Regardless, it's still a vice.
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:28 PM   #127 (permalink)
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So do we want to get way off topic in discussing what constitutes a vice?
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:33 PM   #128 (permalink)
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heh.

you see, you all put your own personal touch on everything.

thats why I take all emotion out.

"there's nothing wrong with a pint after work"

except it leads to alcoholism in many cases and taxes on relationships are home and at work, while filling hospital beds with sick and degraded drunks.

"there's nothing wrong with a little flirting at work, or on the subway"

Except it can lead to marital affairs and messy lawsuits that tear families apart.

We all have responsibilities and control over OUR lives. It makes little sense to worry about outside stimulus, you cannot and will not ever control it.

But don't ever make the mistake of taking your own moral ideals, the ones that you personally have developed, and placing them on to everyone around you because thats not how reality works. the reality is, is that we all experience our own realities.
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:33 PM   #129 (permalink)
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See, it becomes a touchy subject. 1 can very easily lead to 2 or 3 pints..then you jump behind the wheel of a vechile. Regardless, it's still a vice.
it's not that touchy... again there's nothing wrong with having 3 pints on a moral level. Alcohol and affairs are two totally different things.

Here's a really simple way i would look at it.
Do you feel bad about having a drink? no.
do you feel bad about cheating on your wife/husband? yes/probably
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:35 PM   #130 (permalink)
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So do we want to get way off topic in discussing what constitutes a vice?
There are a ton of vices in this world.

It's not off topic. It's quite similar actually.

There are no laws about cheating. Is it morally wrong? Yes. Is it illegal? No.
There are no laws about alcohol consumption. Is it morally wrong to abuse? Yes. Is it illegal? No.
In the end, the consequences and ramifications regarding both can affect a lot of people.
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:39 PM   #131 (permalink)
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There are a ton of vices in this world.

It's not off topic. It's quite similar actually.

There are no laws about cheating. Is it morally wrong? Yes. Is it illegal? No.
There are no laws about alcohol consumption. Is it morally wrong to abuse? Yes. Is it illegal? No.
In the end, the consequences and ramifications regarding both can affect a lot of people.
I am not asking about a distinction between what is morally wrong and what is illegal. I'm asking how you define a vice, and what criteria you use to judge things as such.

I see also that you've added a slight caveat: that alcohol is morally wrong to abuse. When you said

Quote:
Regardless, it's still a vice.
I took that to mean that drinking any alcohol is a vice.
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:41 PM   #132 (permalink)
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heh.

you see, you all put your own personal touch on everything.

thats why I take all emotion out.

"there's nothing wrong with a pint after work"

except it leads to alcoholism in many cases and taxes on relationships are home and at work, while filling hospital beds with sick and degraded drunks.

"there's nothing wrong with a little flirting at work, or on the subway"

Except it can lead to marital affairs and messy lawsuits that tear families apart.

We all have responsibilities and control over OUR lives. It makes little sense to worry about outside stimulus, you cannot and will not ever control it.

But don't ever make the mistake of taking your own moral ideals, the ones that you personally have developed, and placing them on to everyone around you because thats not how reality works. the reality is, is that we all experience our own realities.
we legislate moral issues all the time. you can abstract yourself from it as much as you want, but then someone will just make the decision for you.
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:49 PM   #133 (permalink)
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When a morality becomes an issue I need to worry about as a legislated law, then i can decide how I wanna approach it.

But this is simplistic to me.

Cheating isn't against the law. Never will be. So it's moot.

Violent video games make kids kill thier classmates.
Marilyn Manson is the pied piper of death to middle class youth too.



All too often people want to leap out and control or censor thier environment because they think they know better and that it needs to be done.

I know you all mean well, but honestly, your reality, and your world is yours, and mine is mine, and his is his and hers is hers.

Where are the people who will argue that Ashley Madison was the best thing that ever happened to their life because they were in the wrong place and needed help making changes in their lives..... because after all, life IS short.

Is this a bad way to look at it all?

For some yes, for some no. Who is right? The only person who is right is the one who is being honest with themselves. I am no judge or jury when it comes to an individual's morality, especially when it pertains directly to a commitment that that person has made with somone else. Where is my frame of reference in that relationship???? I have none.
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:50 PM   #134 (permalink)
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heh.

you see, you all put your own personal touch on everything.

thats why I take all emotion out.

"there's nothing wrong with a pint after work"

except it leads to alcoholism in many cases and taxes on relationships are home and at work, while filling hospital beds with sick and degraded drunks.

"there's nothing wrong with a little flirting at work, or on the subway"

Except it can lead to marital affairs and messy lawsuits that tear families apart.

We all have responsibilities and control over OUR lives. It makes little sense to worry about outside stimulus, you cannot and will not ever control it.

But don't ever make the mistake of taking your own moral ideals, the ones that you personally have developed, and placing them on to everyone around you because thats not how reality works. the reality is, is that we all experience our own realities.
You can't take the emotion out of it. Then it's not a human subject, which it IS.

Make it personal.
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:57 PM   #135 (permalink)
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When a morality becomes an issue I need to worry about as a legislated law, then i can decide how I wanna approach it.

But this is simplistic to me.

Cheating isn't against the law. Never will be. So it's moot.

Violent video games make kids kill thier classmates.
Marilyn Manson is the pied piper of death to middle class youth too.



All too often people want to leap out and control or censor thier environment because they think they know better and that it needs to be done.

I know you all mean well, but honestly, your reality, and your world is yours, and mine is mine, and his is his and hers is hers.

Where are the people who will argue that Ashley Madison was the best thing that ever happened to their life because they were in the wrong place and needed help making changes in their lives..... because after all, life IS short.

Is this a bad way to look at it all?

For some yes, for some no. Who is right? The only person who is right is the one who is being honest with themselves. I am no judge or jury when it comes to an individual's morality, especially when it pertains directly to a commitment that that person has made with somone else. Where is my frame of reference in that relationship???? I have none.

my question about whether or not commerce should be independent from morality was in response to this quote:

Quote:
There's a niche, therefore a service.

It's commerce.

It's that simple. The Morality of it all is a moot point.

i guess what i am getting at is that not every niche deserves a profit-driven service, and morality is not at all a moot point when it comes to commerce. indeed we do legislate on it all the time. that said, you're right, cheating isn't illegal, so there is no legislation here. but does that mean that we shouldn't judge businesses until the government comes out and does that for us? doesn't that completely remove human agency? maybe ashley madison is fine, and maybe it isn't, but the question is most definitely not moot just because commerce is filling a need. it is absolutely crucial for citizens to look critically at what the businesses in their neighbourhoods are doing and decide whether or not this is something that fits the society they are trying to build. as i said, you may indeed be right about am, but the moment we decide the question is moot is the moment we consider commerce to be more important than people.
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:57 PM   #136 (permalink)
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You can't take the emotion out of it. Then it's not a human subject, which it IS.

Make it personal.
absolutely.
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:58 PM   #137 (permalink)
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When a morality becomes an issue I need to worry about as a legislated law, then i can decide how I wanna approach it.

But this is simplistic to me.

Cheating isn't against the law. Never will be. So it's moot.
So by your view, do laws mimic morality or does morality mimic law?

Here I am defining morality as what is the right manner to behave towards others.
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:59 PM   #138 (permalink)
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Why?

If your spouse cheated on you, would you really care if it took place at the motel on the corner or at the Radisson?

"Humans" are great at placing blame and responsibility everywhere but where it should be.

Do you honestly believe that men and women cheat because of an ad on the subway that tells them to? Who was postering Subway cars in the 1500's? Think people fucked other peoples wives?
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Old 12-17-2009, 03:02 PM   #139 (permalink)
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my question about whether or not commerce should be independent from morality was in response to this quote:




i guess what i am getting at is that not every niche deserves a profit-driven service, and morality is not at all a moot point when it comes to commerce. indeed we do legislate on it all the time. that said, you're right, cheating isn't illegal, so there is no legislation here. but does that mean that we shouldn't judge businesses until the government comes out and does that for us? doesn't that completely remove human agency? maybe ashley madison is fine, and maybe it isn't, but the question is most definitely not moot just because commerce is filling a need. it is absolutely crucial for citizens to look critically at what the businesses in their neighbourhoods are doing and decide whether or not this is something that fits the society they are trying to build. as i said, you may indeed be right about am, but the moment we decide the question is moot is the moment we consider commerce to be more important than people.
I'm not talking about all issues in all society. I'm talking about Ashley Madison. Don't digress ya big ole brained bastard!



anyhow, I gotta go chop onions and carrots so I can make dinner for the girl I will not cheat on, even though I have known about Ashely Madison for years!
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Old 12-17-2009, 03:03 PM   #140 (permalink)
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Why?

If your spouse cheated on you, would you really care if it took place at the motel on the corner or at the Radisson?

"Humans" are great at placing blame and responsibility everywhere but where it should be.

Do you honestly believe that men and women cheat because of an ad on the subway that tells them to? Who was postering Subway cars in the 1500's? Think people fucked other peoples wives?
I don't care what an ad says, I cheat because it's fun and my significant other will never find out unless he reads this message boa - oops.


Shit.
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