A plea - Page 4
Old 02-10-2013, 12:54 PM   #61 (permalink)
Gam zeh ya'avor

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Your post was removed for making a very unnecessary personal attack on another poster. The specific use of words was not such an issue. Your intent was in fact unacceptable to us here that wish to keep the pissing contests to an absolute minimum.

Respect is not such a difficult concept to master. That is the plea that is being made here. You might want to make it about power dynamics, and I would suggest you get over yourself. That's not what it's about. I would like to extend the plea beyond the r-word, and just ask that people value simple respect for everyone here. We do not need to like each other, but we should at least aim to treat each other with enough respect to allow discussions to function well and appropriately. Personally, I find it pretty distressful that you fail to see the spirit of this thread in a respectful manner, and have gone out of your way to make it about you, and how mods are abusing their power.
This is not about me. I've used the recent censoring as an example, and probably shouldn't have, because it evidently muddied my point. I am talking about censorship in general and our society's disturbing (to me) tendency to pay too much attention to words used over what is being said.
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:02 PM   #62 (permalink)
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In any event, I shouldn't have even bothered, seeing as how I appear to be in an absolute minority here. Go ahead, make lists of bad words all you want. I'd rather worry about bad people and bad deeds, but that's me.
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:10 PM   #63 (permalink)
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This is not about making lists of bad words. Why must you misrepresent everything? It's about the careless use of words. You want to make it about deeds? I think that thoughtlessly and carelessly using words that have loaded cultural connotations is not a great deed. Not to the point that I feel censorship is in any way a solution, but in a way that I feel a thread like this that increases awareness is entirely valid and helpful.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:11 PM   #64 (permalink)
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And I've seen other members being "insulted" with other words and the posts not being removed because...? Or maybe it does matter which insult is being used? And, just to be clear, it's OK for a member to insult a player because, presumably, the player does not read these boards, and yet it's not OK for a member to insult another member because he does? 'Cause that makes me shake my head.

As for the "socially acceptable" versus "socially unacceptable" - I thought it has already been illustrated here how fluid the social acceptance is and how it's even circular over the years with certain words gaining stigma and then losing it again. Hence my points about the intent of the use of the word.
i think i need to clarify some things, so i'm going to be completely open about why we edit posts. you are conflating 3 separate things here.

1. insults towards members

by and large insulting posts are responded to. we either remove it, ask the poster to remove it, or leave it but give a clear message about why that needs to stop. this depends on how the mod sees it, and often on the relationship between the posters.

some posts are not responded to. we can't guarantee that we see everything, that we read every post in detail, or that we don't have days when we are simply too busy. we're not perfect, but by and large we respond.

this is a sports forum, and we expect that people will make lots of negative comments about sports figures. we extend this, in general, to the other types of discussions on this board and step in when we consider things to be offensive. typically this works pretty well. what does not work, though, is a forum where everyone just throws verbal hand grenades at each other all the time. we like rf because a certain level of respect towards posters is expected, and the discussions generally don't spiral into flame wars. we ask you to win the argument by making good points, not by being obnoxious. to me, that's the basic premise that makes this such a good community. i don't really care too much about the insult - hell, most of the time i agree with it - but i don't like what it does to the quality of the discussion.

let me be clear here - it is perfectly ok to say jose is a pylon, but it is not ok to say that miketo is a moron. this is not because moron is a bad word, but because it makes the discussions shitty when people are asswipes towards one another.

2. prejudice and bigotry

we edit posts and remove words we consider to be offensive. like point #1, this is also an issue of raising the level of discourse because words like that are trigger points for people and we want to foster a space free from intolerance. there's a perfect description of how we see this in the forum rules. you can read them here:

Raptors Forum | Toronto Raptors Forums & Message Boards - Announcements in Forum : Toronto Raptors

3. unintentional or hidden prejudice and bigotry

additionally, there are other words that can be offensive to people, but that are perhaps not commonly known to be offensive. retard is a good example of this. so instead of simply censoring the word, which, for the most part we don't do, i typically send the poster a pm with the request that the read this thread and think about it. they usually go back and remove it themselves.

if it is used to insult a poster, as described above, it would be removed as part of the insult, not because of the word itself.



lastly, all of the above is at the discretion of the mods and admins. this is an oligarchy, with the primary purpose to reduce dick-headedness and create a space for fun discussion.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:57 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Hey Mike - remember when I posted a picture of an Edmonton women's hockey team from 1911, with swastikas on their jerseys? Clearly there was no intent to promote nazism or excuse the crimes of those who served nazism, neither on the part of the hockey team, nor myself. But I understood how it could be upsetting to you and out of respect for how you specifically reacted to the symbol, regardless of the intent, I removed it as was your wish. I did not cry out about censorship and political correctness. We are human beings here. It's not that fucking hard.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:01 AM   #66 (permalink)
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let's write more paragraphs about our touchy feelings while we are on a sports forum
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:17 AM   #67 (permalink)
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55 was a good number to end it on
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:25 AM   #68 (permalink)
the gat'll killya quicker, when I'm drunk off the liquor

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I see one of these coming...

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Old 02-11-2013, 12:32 AM   #69 (permalink)
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55 was a good number to end it on
lol
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:34 AM   #70 (permalink)
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i think i need to clarify some things, so i'm going to be completely open about why we edit posts. you are conflating 3 separate things here.

1. insults towards members

by and large insulting posts are responded to. we either remove it, ask the poster to remove it, or leave it but give a clear message about why that needs to stop. this depends on how the mod sees it, and often on the relationship between the posters.

some posts are not responded to. we can't guarantee that we see everything, that we read every post in detail, or that we don't have days when we are simply too busy. we're not perfect, but by and large we respond.

this is a sports forum, and we expect that people will make lots of negative comments about sports figures. we extend this, in general, to the other types of discussions on this board and step in when we consider things to be offensive. typically this works pretty well. what does not work, though, is a forum where everyone just throws verbal hand grenades at each other all the time. we like rf because a certain level of respect towards posters is expected, and the discussions generally don't spiral into flame wars. we ask you to win the argument by making good points, not by being obnoxious. to me, that's the basic premise that makes this such a good community. i don't really care too much about the insult - hell, most of the time i agree with it - but i don't like what it does to the quality of the discussion.

let me be clear here - it is perfectly ok to say jose is a pylon, but it is not ok to say that miketo is a moron. this is not because moron is a bad word, but because it makes the discussions shitty when people are asswipes towards one another.

2. prejudice and bigotry

we edit posts and remove words we consider to be offensive. like point #1, this is also an issue of raising the level of discourse because words like that are trigger points for people and we want to foster a space free from intolerance. there's a perfect description of how we see this in the forum rules. you can read them here:

Raptors Forum | Toronto Raptors Forums & Message Boards - Announcements in Forum : Toronto Raptors

3. unintentional or hidden prejudice and bigotry

additionally, there are other words that can be offensive to people, but that are perhaps not commonly known to be offensive. retard is a good example of this. so instead of simply censoring the word, which, for the most part we don't do, i typically send the poster a pm with the request that the read this thread and think about it. they usually go back and remove it themselves.

if it is used to insult a poster, as described above, it would be removed as part of the insult, not because of the word itself.



lastly, all of the above is at the discretion of the mods and admins. this is an oligarchy, with the primary purpose to reduce dick-heads and create a space for fun discussion.
... What happened to the edited post?

Last edited by Kuzzy; 02-12-2013 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:54 AM   #71 (permalink)
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...
Really?
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:32 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Really?
Yes, really. In my 5+ years with this forum there have several occasions where power was abused. You guys aren't all that civil and righteous either. I have taken the issue to Trane and requested that my account be deleted as soon as possible.
Btw, things were a lot better when Dr. J ran the show.

Last edited by Kuzzy; 02-12-2013 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:32 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Cite the example.

I've been a mod here all this time. All decisions are made as a collective (even when Doc was here). He never ran the show solely. Ever. He always asked for our opinion. Nothing has changed since then with Doc, Benzo etc.

Secondly, it's much easier just to never sign in and never come back. I don't know why we have to do your work. And if it's temptation you cite, you can always just come back as another account. If you don't like it, just leave.

Thanks,

Claudius (Mod since 2007)
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:26 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Yes, really. In my 5+ years with this forum there have several occasions where power was abused. You guys aren't all that civil and righteous either. I have taken the issue to Trane and requested that my account be deleted as soon as possible.
Btw, things were a lot better when Dr. J ran the show.
I'd say the mods do a pretty good job here keeping it civil, you're probably in the minority with that viewpoint. I wouldn't say they're abusing power either, if that was the case I woulda been banned a long time ago.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:51 PM   #75 (permalink)
...

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Sometimes, I really feel that Claudius and 'trane should literally run this country.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:54 PM   #76 (permalink)
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as long as acie continues to do everything while i get credit, the all good 10gizzle!
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