A plea - Page 3
Old 12-19-2010, 02:24 PM   #41 (permalink)
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oh Jeff... it's as if you read my mind then set traps for me.......

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Old 12-19-2010, 10:03 PM   #42 (permalink)
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triano picks this game to put alabi in, really jay?
Umm... Hows that relevant to this thread lol
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:02 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Umm... Hows that relevant to this thread lol
I think Jeff is making an implication here.
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:44 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I've said it on the board and I have an autistic sister. I'd go to hell if I believed in it...
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:53 PM   #45 (permalink)
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If this doesn't touch you, you're heartless. My sister is autistic and I cry everytime at this. Please accept my apologies for saying this word.

YouTube - Autism: Are your eyes listening?
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Old 03-20-2011, 07:21 PM   #46 (permalink)
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The problem I have with discontinuing the use of word, even when it's used improperly, is just that - its discontinuation. Retard/retarded, despite its connotations, is a real word with several meanings and whether that's the classification of the mentally handicapped or "the extent to which something is delayed or held back" or even as most people use it, "idiot: a person of subnormal intelligence", it doesn't matter - it's still a legitimate usage. I read 1984 and so it's quite clear that the restriction of word choice is the restriction of expression, and that's not something I'm for.

If you want to rail against something, rail against our society that classifies and categorizes people with labels that then acquire these connotations because of said labeling. As 'trane pointed out, words like moron, idiot, etc. used to have the same connotation as retard but gradually lost it because of disassociation or acquisition of a new meaning, much in the same way as fag/faggot if you've seen a particular South Park episode. From my perspective, the more we use retard/retarded as a synonym for idiot/idiotic, the more we'll associate it with that and not the mentally handicapped so that we can judge those people on their own merits and actual degree of retardation rather than reducing them to one word.
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Old 03-20-2011, 07:26 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Asking people to be sensitive to those that would find the most common uses of the word to be offensive is a long ways off from 1984.
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Old 03-20-2011, 08:17 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Perhaps LX, but my point still stands that using it as a synonym for idiot is completely legitimate and telling someone not to use it because in their mind it's a word only for labelling the mentally handicapped is ignorant of its other uses and to me, is more offensive to said handicapped as it reduces them to one word.

I'm of the opinion that in a free society it is not on one to be responsible for another's sensitivities because of that person's connotations of a particular word, but that it is more offensive to limit someone's expression because of said sensibilities. And when someone's use of a word offends me I'll ask why that person said it, find out the context and if it's ill-used I'll try to enlighten them as to the proper usage. If it's actually because that person is bigoted then I'll admonish them and won't associate with that person because I will have judged that persons morals to be incompatible with mine.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:05 PM   #49 (permalink)
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metallikid, with all due respect, you have missed the point(s).

first, i am quite aware of other meanings of the word.

second, i am not demanding censorship of the word, i have only asked that people consider it and the impact it has on others before they use it.

third, while it might not be important to you, it certainly is to many other people. in the interest of making this board both welcoming and inclusive i suggested that we think about it. there are many people, possibly people who are part of this community, to which that is a deeply offensive thing to say. this is not just a personal invention. there is a very real community that is regularly (and at times systematically) marginalized because of what that word represents and how it is used. as a human descriptor - both clinically and socially - it has no use. 'degrees of retardation' - as you so eloquently put it - are not how human beings are diagnosed, nor how they should be judged. their merits are precisely what they hope to be judged on, and by lumping them together under the banner of retardation those things are routinely ignored.

the use of the word to insult a non-disabled person is a more recent phenomenon. it takes this lumping together of disabilities and equates it with stupidity, thereby transferring the stigma of the disability to the person or idea you want to denigrate. and that's the part that many people have a problem with. the assumption of that stigma and the transference of it without any thought to the original. so it's not so much the word, but the transference of the assumed insult.

the fact that our society is, in some sense, free is not an automatic and immediate justification for saying and doing whatever we want whenever we want. just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to. and even though i said "do what you will, it is in your right to do so", you still jumped right at the 'limits of expression' defense. as individuals we are allowed to make our own choices (if indeed we do have free will), but we always have the option to consider the communities to which we belong when we say and do things. and this option is all i asked people to consider. do as you will metallikid, but don't try to insinuate that what i'm doing is somehow totalitarian. it was a plea.

i should add that i was not a mod when i made the original post. i was a member of a community raising an issue that was impacting me.
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Old 07-21-2011, 09:52 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Just saw this commercial on T.V. and really caught me by surprise when I heard the 'N' word. I wasn't aware you could say those kinda words on T.V...

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Old 02-04-2013, 12:23 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Receiving lots of complaints lately about the liberal use of the word "retard".

Thought this might be worth bumping.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:27 PM   #52 (permalink)
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+1
Agree.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:49 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acie View Post
Receiving lots of complaints lately about the liberal use of the word "retard".

Thought this might be worth bumping.
I honestly have never onced used the word ever since reading this thread bout a year ago or so, I'm a complete dick sometimes, but I understand how certain words bother people, I've typed it a few times, then delete it after I think about it.

Not saying I was accused of it or anything, just sayin :P
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:30 PM   #54 (permalink)
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good man chig.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:57 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Never seen this thread until today. A lot of things have become much clearer, now that I've seen it.

Honestly, I think it's all a bunch of crap. I don't have to read 1984 - I lived it until the ripe age of 25 and have been through the grinder of the state-shaped psychology through my formative and adult years. So when I tell you that Western political correctness is a bunch of crap, I am doing it from experience within the society built on censorship.

Words are words. Some hurt, some don't, but it's clear as day that a word in itself is nothing, while the intent with which it's used is everything. Tarantino has probably set a world record for the use of the word "nigger" in Django Unchained - did anyone have a problem with that? Black people, specifically? I hope not, because, in his special manner, he used it to illustrate the horrors of slavery and to emphasize the grotesque that is his calling card. Same goes for the use of that very word among black people - how come they call each other that all the time and not find the word offensive? Again, intent to insult, or rather a lack thereof.

Now, back to the word "retard". Or idiot, or moron. Does anyone here seriously think that when one poster calls another a moron, he actually means that another poster is mentally ill or has intellectual development issues? The intent here is clearly not to denigrate sick people, the person writing the word isn't thinking about them at all, he is clearly irate and is looking to emphasize his opinion by using those words. Is he likely to get a heated response? Sure. Is he likely to get into a pissing contest? Absolutely. But did he mean any disrespect to people with Down's syndrome? Absolutely not, IMO.

In conclusion - mods are within their rights to stop the fights on the forum. Words, though, are a different story. Who picks the list? Why is the word "pylon", for instance, not on that list, while the word "retard" is? Where does one draw a line? Why is the inner censor of an admin better than one of a moderator, which, in turn, is better than one of a regular member? Censorship never helps, in the end.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:24 PM   #56 (permalink)
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You are bringing up censorship why exactly Mike? You are the one calling for "pylon" to be censored. Nobody is censoring the use of the word retard.

If someone directly refers to someone as a "retard" for doing something they disapprove of, they directly show disrespect towards that person, but they obviously also indirectly show disrespect for people with Down's Syndrome. There is no disrespect for pylons as far as I can ascertain.

Personally. I had a bit of a problem with Tarantino's use of language. It was correct to be historically accurate, but his film was not all that historically acurate, and the language was used more in a sensationalist manner as a whole. The film was a whole lot of noise without much meaning once it got past the halfway mark. Sadly that's about the acceptable extent to which race can be discussed, even while presenting a narrative about slavery. And that whole situation is completely different from the simple respect being requested for people that can offer a lot to all our lives while they come up against disadvantages that many times society unnecessarily magnifies, including through the use of - yes - words. You complain of having gone through a process of being diminished by the state, and yet dismiss how a culture can diminish people that they feel do not deserve the respect required to be included in that culture.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:31 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
You are bringing up censorship why exactly Mike? You are the one calling for "pylon" to be censored. Nobody is censoring the use of the word retard.

If someone directly refers to someone as a "retard" for doing something they disapprove of, they directly show disrespect towards that person, but they obviously also indirectly show disrespect for people with Down's Syndrome. There is no disrespect for pylons as far as I can ascertain.

Personally. I had a bit of a problem with Tarantino's use of language. It was correct to be historically accurate, but his film was not all that historically acurate, and the language was used more in a sensationalist manner as a whole. The film was a whole lot of noise without much meaning once it got past the halfway mark. Sadly that's about the acceptable extent to which race can be discussed, even while presenting a narrative about slavery. And that whole situation is completely different from the simple respect being requested for people that can offer a lot to all our lives while they come up against disadvantages that many times society unnecessarily magnifies, including through the use of - yes - words. You complain of having gone through a process of being diminished by the state, and yet dismiss how a culture can diminish people that they feel do not deserve the respect required to be included in that culture.
I never called for the censorship. Jeff (and others) called Calderon a pylon, I've retaliated by calling Jeff a retard, my post was removed (after reading this thread I know why) and his wasn't. THAT was my problem. If Jeff didn't mean that Calderon is an orange cone, I didn't mean that Jeff is somehow developmentally-challenged.

Your position is that pylons as a group cannot read and thus cannot be offended by Calderon being called a pylon, while people with certain disabilities would get offended by me calling Jeff a retard. I counter that there is an equal chance of a pylon reading these boards and of anyone thinking for one second that I believe Jeff to be really mentally retarded. The intent, see, the intent.

I've brought up a totalitarian society as an example of prolonged and largely failed censorship experiment. Their attempts to diminish their people weren't particularly successful, you know.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:44 PM   #58 (permalink)
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nice work mike. i can't believe you didn't understand the main point of this thread. how is that even possible? smh...

it's not that someone thinks the poster has a disability that is the problem, it is that by using the word you are transferring stigma to the person you want to insult, thereby reinforcing that stigma. the issue is a social one and a structural one, not a problem with insults.

insults are against the rules here. that is one thing. but this post is a plea, not an instruction, and that plea is to understand the power of that word, socially, and what it does to people with disabilities. it is exactly like the word nigger, or kike, or fag, and i ask that you not use it for the exact reason that you don't use those other words.

you were censored for insulting a member, not for using the word retard. and that you have failed to understand that, both when it happened and was explained, and now, is amazing.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:48 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Your post was removed for making a very unnecessary personal attack on another poster. The specific use of words was not such an issue. Your intent was in fact unacceptable to us here that wish to keep the pissing contests to an absolute minimum.

Respect is not such a difficult concept to master. That is the plea that is being made here. You might want to make it about power dynamics, and I would suggest you get over yourself. That's not what it's about. I would like to extend the plea beyond the r-word, and just ask that people value simple respect for everyone here. We do not need to like each other, but we should at least aim to treat each other with enough respect to allow discussions to function well and appropriately. Personally, I find it pretty distressful that you fail to see the spirit of this thread in a respectful manner, and have gone out of your way to make it about you, and how mods are abusing their power.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:51 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
nice work mike. i can't believe you didn't understand the main point of this thread. how is that even possible? smh...

it's not that someone thinks the poster has a disability that is the problem, it is that by using the word you are transferring stigma to the person you want to insult, thereby reinforcing that stigma. the issue is a social one and a structural one, not a problem with insults.

insults are against the rules here. that is one thing. but this post is a plea, not an instruction, and that plea is to understand the power of that word, socially, and what it does to people with disabilities. it is exactly like the word nigger, or kike, or fag, and i ask that you not use it for the exact reason that you don't use those other words.

you were censored for insulting a member, not for using the word retard. and that you have failed to understand that, both when it happened and was explained, and now, is amazing.
And I've seen other members being "insulted" with other words and the posts not being removed because...? Or maybe it does matter which insult is being used? And, just to be clear, it's OK for a member to insult a player because, presumably, the player does not read these boards, and yet it's not OK for a member to insult another member because he does? 'Cause that makes me shake my head.

As for the "socially acceptable" versus "socially unacceptable" - I thought it has already been illustrated here how fluid the social acceptance is and how it's even circular over the years with certain words gaining stigma and then losing it again. Hence my points about the intent of the use of the word.
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