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Old 04-15-2011, 02:36 PM   #92 (permalink)

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Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
ok so you're post about the united way proved my point. they broke records mostly because of individual and organizational donations. the government sponsorship of those kinds of organizations is drying up and org's like the united way are picking up the slack becasue concerned citizens are making huge donations to offset what the goverment is no longer doing.
This disproves the rest of your post, Individual and Organizations, picked up the slack, without government intervention. You are saying that without government intervention these orgs would not exist, you just proved otherwise. Here is the kicker, with tax breaks, people will support them more.

i oppose a completely free market because the market has no conscience. i am willing to do that because i don't believe in complete freedom of the individual, i believe in the health of the community. free individuals trample the vulnerable. free markets not only enable this, they encourage it. we need to tend towards free markets, but check them when they degrade the social health of the community. i believe in an involved government because it is the only thing with the strength to rein in the tendancy of free markets to dominate the weak (and i don't mean the lazy or the stupid, i mean the truly vulnerable).
Assumptions I disagree with, history supports me. You make it sound like under a conservative government we were out kicking babies, its sensationalism.

compassionate conservatism, on a fiscal level, is not a tenable position. you can't believe both in complete individual freedom/completely free markets and also in social safety nets that protect the marginalized. and once you accept that some intervention is necessary your arguments on curbing that intervention can no longer be logically based on the free market position, since we are no longer talking about a free market, nor about unfettered individual liberty. the argument needs to be a rational analysis of needs and possibilities, of limits and balance. if you accept that any of this has to be done, i don't see you can can also be unwilling to move from any of those 3 core beliefs.
Again I don't support your thesis statement, so the rest of it is conjecture to to me.

You will notice, that I have no once tried to sway you from your beliefs because I think that the difference of opinion is part of what makes it all work. You yourself are the antithesis to what you are afraid of. I have faith in people even in a free market, because people like us exist.
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