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Old 12-20-2010, 03:28 PM   #149 (permalink)
brainfarting keyboard eater

Dwane Casey kicks ass!
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,254

Well, it has been a long time, but I've stumbled upon this thread and can't help my self to not get involved at least a little bit. So first of all, my kindest greetings to everyone.

A few of things I'd like to point out.

There is a growing number of 'militant' atheists that I've been simply stumbling upon either around the web or in daily life. By militant I mean the following and nothing other then the following without any desire or intent to offend anyone:

1) Excessive rants about what they perceive to be 'religion'
2) Very emotional
3) Intelligent, Informed and respectable enough to be listened and responded to
4) Display some of the very same behavior they claim to oppose
5) In all cases they confuse religion with these institutions and their representatives, the doctrine and the deception that is present while totally forgetting to look for what it's really all about

I'm happy to see that my dear friend LX, as usual, has a very interesting and well informed opinion on the topic though we are in different camps on this one. (Cheers! LX!)

At the same time, I've seen a growing number of what I call "self indulging self proclaimed followers of the right path" who do very little of thinking on their own, simply repeat what they've been told, claim to know it all while making an enormous effort to look and show off better then anyone else, cleaner, more in tact with the spiritual world, innocent and disgusted by all the worldly 'sins'.

Now, copy/paste the five points about 'militant atheists' and it pretty muches perfectly matches the "self indulging self proclaimed followers of the right path".

Before I continue, I think it's only fair to clearly say that I am a Muslim, that I do believe in God and His Messengers, His Books and the Unseen(Hidden) world and that there is no God but Him and that Mohammed is His Messenger and His Servant.

I say that openly only for everyone to be clear where I'm coming from and without any preaching or any of the "HOLIER THAN YOU" attitude that is often demonstrated by "self indulging self proclaimed followers of the right path" found in every religion including Islam, Christianity, Judaism etc.. etc.. and also Atheism. I also will not hide behind mind tricks or loaded questions to realize any potential hidden agenda of mine. I'm merely here to state my opinion and belief in a as kind way as I can manage at this moment.

And yes, IMO, Atheism is a "religion" as any other "religion".

Now, for the last time, I'm not here to in any way insult or upset anyone. I'd also like to emphasize that I will not engage in answering questions coming from the overly popular challenges based on misinformed propaganda and out of the context examples of the so called discrimination in Islam nor will I be defending my self nor my religion from any potential challenges/claims/attitudes/opinions that are coming from ill will and misinformation. I have been in these situations many times before it's just simply waste of time. So if anyone plans on doing any of this know that I simply will not be bothered to answer, go Google your stuff. Honest, polite, smart or informed questions and challenges on any topic are very welcome.

Here is some stuff I think is very important to understand if we are to progress in our individual understanding of the individual experience we are all having.

Religion and institutions as well as their representatives should never ever be confused in any way shape or form. There are as many religions as there are individuals, no matter how willing they might be to accept or admit that. Once more people understand that, their experience is unique to them and that their belief is like no other belief no matter how many people they might agree or disagree with, only then will we be able to really talk about religion in a comfortable way and attempt to understand it. To confuse the two is as idiotic, IMO, as to claim the earth is flat so the water wouldn't spill.

Doubt is part of the process, it is the investigative mind that is part of the engine that drives our mental/material/biological/spiritual/intellectual/conscious/unconscious development trough out the experience we commonly refer to as life. It is there for to be accepted as mean of progress in self upbringing and development. It is present and sometimes hidden but it is there.

Opinion without doubt is not an opinion for it has no chance to change nor even be challenged and as such it becomes a factor of mental and spiritual regression within the intimate domain while within the public domain it also manifests in more tangible, material ways of regression.

As the doubt is part of every single human being it is inherently part of every human product including the institutions be those the Government, the University or the [symbol] Church/Mosque/Synagogue/Any Temple[/symbol]. In every single point in history, where any of these or other large and powerful institutions were not facing enough doubt and challenge there has been instant atrocity. It is a direct manifest of how an ignored resource can lead to a disaster.

However, institutions that claim to represent a religion/faith become the easy targets simply because of their history, involvement in every part of our lives, directly or indirectly and mostly because in 99,99% of the cases they simply refuse challenge or doubt and more often than not with a "How dare you", "Holier then you" mentality. This, probably showing they deserve a lot of flack. Lately, these are using or the hoopla to their advantage in an attempt to portray themselves as victims.

The fact is, governments are equally as bad and in fact worse trough out history especially since a lot of people actually think they can influence their government while not seeing how they have been taken on a well planned ride where the few improve and the many suffer. That is a totally different topic, on fringe of conspiracy (theory) that I have no intent to further get in to... for the time being.

Also, schools and universities invest a lot in their own means of indoctrination and are becoming more immune to any kind of challenge than any government or "cleric conglomerate." The scientific progress of the global society has basically stopped for some time now and it has only to do with the exact same ignoring of a valuable resource, probably on purpose. There are many glorious scientific reports that promise a better new world but it has all remained in the drawers, on papers, journals etc.. etc.. yet nothing of significance or substance. It is astonishing fact that most of the progress in today science is driven strictly by and for profit. On that is hasn't always been a part of it but never, IMO, at this magnitude.

Yet, all of the focus on the source of bad remains on religion, most of the time while all these corrupt individuals get to shield themselves with their mantels and suits and ties and offices and what not.

Being as hardheaded Bosnian as they come, it was basically impossible for me to get behind any of this and follow it blindly like so many people are doing. And here's why.

The experience called life is so amazing and so full of opportunities and dimensions that it's really stupid to not think about what it's all about. Most of the people fall in two traps that can be titled in a few ways or in as many ways as one may see fit. Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindu, Atheist, Scientist, Materialists, Westerners, Easterners, Liberals, Communists, Democrats, Thief, Policeman, Lawyers etc.. etc... Pick any two. And I'm not talking about mere labels stuck on people based on education/opinion/value system/career/belief. I'm talking about self inflected experience mutilations that are solely based on frustration with "the other camp".

In this, a lot of religious folks deny and oppose science, evolution, progress and improvement in most surreal manner with such a strong and directed drive that it's almost impossible to comprehend. Almost.

A lot of scientists will display the very same behavior exchanging science, evolution, progress and improvement with religion, belief, spirituality etc..etc..

All of it, simply based on frustration with the other camp. AND IT HAS PRODUCED NOTHING OF SUBSTANCE! NOTHING AT ALL! FROM ANY OF THESE!

The reason is, people deny themselves the beauty of an immense amount of amazing experience. Radicals get to lose out on all the beauty of math and physics and chemistry and what not. Other Radicals get to lose on all the beauty of infinite rhythm and manifestation of spirituality. Third Radicals lose on both and fall in to passive walk through of their experience. etc etc.

Idiotic that we think so high of ourselves to choose what is right and what is wrong in such short period of time in such a huge sweeps that we basically cut down our own wings.

In all of this, I have come to a conclusion that there has been one way for me, personally to deal with this and that is, open the mind to the challenge and to the ever growing information overload. And filter what I enjoy and what I feel is feeding my desire for information, for discussion, for spiritual fulfillment. And my choice for some time now has simply been Islam and what I know of it as a filter of high quality information and feeds that are helping me improve to where I want to be. I've taken the trip back in my past and felt bad for all the opportunities I missed, all the things I never learned for no reason and those are the things I could have a use of right now.

But, instead of dwelling on the past, my religion has become for me the path that I try to walk on and ask questions and be challenged and discover and enjoy and love and everything for if I had known only things that I have been told and nothing on my own and had it remained this way I would still be dwelling upon all the stuff I wish I had done differently.

A religion is a way to move forward not an institution that will "tell you" where you need to go, what you need to do. This has been created by the clero-fascist all over the world who simply are corrupt and abuse the honest people out of their very own, individual religion. For people to massively bill the atrocities committed by these ego maniacs to religion is a sure fire way to disaster. Not because the sky will fall or earth will open but because so many people are denying themselves such an invaluable quality of experience that they are simply being mutilated by their own hand.

I have experienced wonderful things trough both the east and west, the science and the religion, the material and the immaterial that I simply can't mentally or spiritually afford my self to be a blind follower of one camp while excluding the other.

It is therefore stupid, IMO, to give up on anything based out of frustration and half informations. Be it science, religion, love for humanity, the world we live in the world we can't see the amazing music from around the globe be it Nick Cave or Omar Faruk Tekbilek or John Coltrane or Thelonius Monk or whomever all these wonderful dimensions that are simply there to be studied and challenged, loved and cherished, doubted and defended.

Excluding things simple does the individual a disservice. Not because of the punishment of an unknown debts but because of not reaching the unknown highs, simply remaining this file in the drawer with little if any real progress.

It's really simple in the end to understand that when fighing the evil, we should fight the individuals who are evil not whole nations or continents or groups or whomever. Only then can the evil be removed not from our country or planet but from within us because like it or not, each and everyone of us is so sinful and so desperate and stupid while at the same time being completely the opposite, this beautiful, amazing being. And since we are naturally like this, there's no need to further divide in the drawers and choose a side.
There's only one side and everything is possible on that side.

Until next time...

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